Posts by wozza

9

Interview with an Apostate - Wozza

by wozza in

born in the early 50’s in london england to non jw parents and when i was young we moved to adelaide south australia and there my brother was born .

i contracted tb on the ship over and was treated in hospital for months with a antibiotic which is banned for humans here now .

my father would tell me tearfully over the years how horrible it was for me and them .even then ,dad was told by doctors i may have nerve and brain damage from the treatment and an unstable temperament.. .

wozza

Thank you Lois it's nice to hear from caring people here ,after doing this I cried and mourned the life I had ,but being here helps mend things I think. Sorry for the crappy spelling

9

Interview with an Apostate - Wozza

by wozza in

born in the early 50’s in london england to non jw parents and when i was young we moved to adelaide south australia and there my brother was born .

i contracted tb on the ship over and was treated in hospital for months with a antibiotic which is banned for humans here now .

my father would tell me tearfully over the years how horrible it was for me and them .even then ,dad was told by doctors i may have nerve and brain damage from the treatment and an unstable temperament.. .

wozza

Tell us a little about yourself and your family.

Born in the early 50’s in London England to non JW parents and when I was young we moved to Adelaide South Australia and there my brother was born .

I contracted TB on the ship over and was treated in hospital for months with a antibiotic which is banned for humans here now . My father would tell me tearfully over the years how horrible it was for me and them .Even then ,dad was told by doctors I may have nerve and brain damage from the treatment and an unstable temperament.

My parents had difficult lives themselves and never got on or talk, I thought this normal, my brother and me never got on well either and basically it was a house of hate but we got on with life ,all the time I watched other families and wondered why we were different. Dad was in WW11 in the RAF as a bomber on Lancaster planes and such for the full term of the war and it damaged him terribly – I have written on here before about him and how his attitude toward war affected my thinking growing up. He had PTSD ,as a child I was inquisitive and would go over his old RAF photos and ask countless questions which he struggled with but was patient. One day he broke down as I was going thru the photos again and explained like never before the things that happened in that war personally to him ,all of theyoung men in the photos died back then, and I realised he was riddled with guilt for being the only one to survive the war .I was 10 and came closer to understanding dad from that time on. Before, I could not understand why he would send me into shops for tobacco and his chewing gum for instance.

My mother was a nut job if ever there was one ,born out of wedlock to poverty ,her mother died when my mother was 12 and then she was on the streets .An aunty died and left her a massive amount of money and some slimy relatives took her in only then and spent all her money ,only to throw her on the streets again. But that was not before she suffered sexual abuse and torture at their hand. So she was twisted and ill prepared to marry and have children and as a result her past was passed onto myself and my brother as I have written about on this site before. She became a mormon when I was about 3- 4 ,which dad hated and we had American missionaries around contantly with their religion and brags of America as “Gods own Country” ,I always wondered as a kid why would God select these braggers as special people. Well she was booted out of the Mormons ,as I found out years later for having a relationship with a young boy at the church who I new well ,he was about 4 years older than me.

Things were pretty bad at home by the time I was 12 .My brother and me experienced sexual abuse and I was abducted from outside a public swimming pool and raped in a car and left to struggle home ,I kept all my secrets till I was 40 and lived daily with them till I told my father then – he was crushed and I lived with the guilt of telling him till his death.

Amongst all of this my mother pushed me to develop skills of divination etc saying it was good and the skills I learned over the years ,even before I was 12 ,made me a nervous wreck, foretelling terrible events in others lives confused me (from what source was this power?) By the time I was 20 it was eating away at my sanity ,I was convicing myself this was all imagined and I was making this up .The trouble was the people were still in my life and knew what the truth was . It scared me so much as to where this power came from so I forced myself away from the people and doing the divination amongst other things .

Met my first wife who was terrified by my past and would’nt talk about it ,which suited me. Finally I thought ,a bit of normal life ,get a home raise kids and forget the past .Her mother was a JW and so in the early 70’s I began discussions about her beliefs and accepted a study with an elder in the local congregation ,I asked him if the big A was coming in 1975 and he said he thought so ,which was contrary to the mother-in-laws thoughts so I quit the study and we moved away but the sisters caught up with my wife in the late 70’s.

Sorry if that was lengthy but I thought a bit of background might be helpful.

Were you a born in or a convert?

.No

Are your parents / family Jws?

No

How many generations have been Jws?

None

Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc…)

About 1980 I studied and gave it up again ,then one day a brother came around and I liked his manner so I started again ,baptised early80’s and became a MS a few years later ,told the body I won’t be an Elder because of work/family/and the the number of bible studies we had, my wife was a full time pioneer for years and we brought many into the org.

Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?

Well by the time I did my last study I thought I had found the truth ,here was an explanation for the spiritistic practises and the source of powers I had used !

Also a world of peace and love was possible with Satan gone nobody would be hurt like me and my family had experienced and I wanted the best for my kids

Did you get baptised? When and why?

Yes 1983 .I thought this has to be the answer to mankinds woes ,I studied the blue “TRUTH” book

What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?

Being so busy teaching others I learnt empathy for people and fealt for there plight.

Over time I saw the hypocrisy of so many brothers and especially Elders who would not really help the people once they camein. They were left to their own troubles, and some of them I studied with ,and they had been alchoholics and drug addicts, or simply like myself had tough things happen in their lives. They needed on going help not meetings field service and such. They were supposed to be shepherded and comforted not ignored ,they were broken and hurt people .

Of course this came to a head when the elder body confronted me about “going around to the brothers and sisters”. I had already been thru a similar situation with helping a young brother ,an elders son, turn back from fornication and return to Jehovah. The body said I was usurping their headship when in actual fact they had alredy conspired to DF him because they despised the young mans father . He actually did turn back when I met with him and took another brother as a witness ,but this was not good enough and they DF’d him anyway – where was the love that Christ taught?

This I guess started my questioning and I continued being a thorn in elders sides ffrom then on.

Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?

My marriage broke up and I was left a single father at the beginning of the 90’s ,my delusion of the truth holding the marriage together smashed (3 fold cord BS etc),I’d stopped being a MS earlier to save the marriage, and stopped studying with people and had more time to look at the Org more and keep my kids in ,but there was too much BS at the meetings going on . People treated me with suspicion now because I was a single father ,rumours amongst the brothers that I was an adulterer which were lies, and when I sought help from the brothers it was’nt there. I wanted to look into the JW org but there were no books at the library and it was pre internet days for me.

I married again to a sister who after our wedding night revealed her elder father had molested her for years ,and so began 15 years of fighting the Watchtower for justice ,he denied it of course and in time the internet came to my life and the Silent Lambs web site which helped me greatly. Along those years I saw how HUMAN the WTS is ,there was no holy spirit directing this lot!I wore out and so did our marriage ,it had survived so much ,what with my kids becoming addicts and helping them clean up ,I was broken and my wife was lost because the WTS had not been there for her and her father is still a JW today, she left me and the org. ,she could’nt cope. We remain friends.

But before she left the 2 witness rule came to a head with an event we had in Queensland Australia before we moved back to Adelaide because my dad was dying. While in Queensland an elder there had purchased an item from me about a year before we left there and it was faulty so I replaced it with a brand new model which was more expensive ,this was because his item had been sent back to the company who supplid me with it to repair ,but they went into liquidation so I thought I would take the loss and give him one of my more expensive new models to settle the situation . Oh no that was’nt good enough and with all sorts of threats made clear was a ******* prick. Shortly after this I was to move states to my father ,but to keep my work liscence continuing I needed written evidence from a brother who I had done work for to prove I was still in the business and did good work so they could liscence me in the stste I was going to . We agreed to meet on a job of his to sign the papers but lo and behold it was the new house of this complaining elder ,and when I got there this elder came out and accused me of cheating him etc but was using the most filthy language and the brother who I had come to see ,his fleshly brother and another JW witnessed the whole scene . When I tried to sort this mess out “theocratically “the Elder and his cronies shut me down . So I got written testimony from the 3 brothers of what they had witnessed and then was on my way to my new home state. From there I contacted by mail the Bethel in Sydney Australia and they now had a 3 witness account of the event with this elder .

Of course all that happened was the elder sent a letter to me ,at the order of Bethel, but this letter did’nt acknowlege any error on his part ,no apology just a limp excuse for his behaviour – but that was what I needed to see the WTS for what it is ,that was the final nail especially since all the years of fighting the WTS over my wifes rapes and no 2 witnesses.

How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?

I guess it was a long painful exit

Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?

Before my wife left we stopped going to meetings after the letter came from Bethel. I have written on here before how I exposed pedophiles in our congregation ,but it was painful for the elders involved but probably not dramatic for the others in our congo as the details were hidden from them. But I continued to expose the pedophiles and the WTS reasing on how to handle these cases. As far as I know they dF’d me remotely.

Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?

No idea

How were your family relations affected by your decision?

My children are grown into adults into good working lives and they were thrilled at me leaving

Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?

I was well known in this area as an MS ,pioneered from time to time and any old timers run like rabbits. They totally shun me ,don’t come to my door unless theres a mistake made

How long have you now been out?

About 12 years

.

Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?

Freedom of my mind

What are you most proud of achieving since you left?

Warning others of the pedophile situation when I left ,I so fear for the children in there.

Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?

Yes there was some really good genuine friends but they would think I am possessed now

Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?

Never ,so thankful for Silent Lambs and this site which helped me find my way to the truth about the WTS!!

Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?

I wish I could believe in a truly active merciful god and son but the reality of religion destroys that hope.

How do you now feel about religion in general?

The opium of the masses just about covers it.

Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?

Never did put much stock in that bullshit – no guilt

Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-Jws?

Yes once years ago with an ex sister and a gay ex brother ,met them thru this site

Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?

Regular people

Do you tell people about your JW past?

Yes at an appropriate occasion

Do you feel animosity or pity toward current Jws?

I have moved on from wanting to help them see the real truth and don’t feel I have anything special to offer ,once I got the understanding of cognitive dissonance I did’nt feel I could really help anyone leave because I am cut off from them.

How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?

If it is ones I know, I am the same friendly person I have always been and they run,

newbies I will tell them the horror they are in

Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)

Did the activism to a degree in the past but would gladly help a wouded soul

What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?

Let the WTS fuck with their lives long enough and watch ‘em leave

Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?

They will survive in some form as we have seen in the last 20 years even with all the revealing of their BS after all they are an American corporation well lawyered up.

How has your life been impacted by your JW past?

Hey I learned to do public speaking ,and human organisations that pretend to be from god are clearly identifiable to me now!

Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?

.Probably but looking back it was just part of life that I learned from

JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?

I can’t say ,some might gain from the morals taught but then there is a heap of born ins who learned to be utter hypocrites like elders children

.

How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?

Living a retired life looking forward to working on my old motor bikes and seeing my 8 grand children

Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?

Guess I do ,I want to witness the crumbling American religion fulfill all my expectations of hypocrisy and I admit to a certain pleasure watching the top brass squirm as another piece of shit they pass gets destoyed by time.

How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?

Not much just check in on how things are going and the ones here are not getting over taken by life and the past.

What do you think of the ex-JW community?

Only come on here don’t see any

Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?

No idea maybe I will have moved on

Do you fear the future?

Probably no more than anyone else

What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?

Here’s the relgion I was baptised into – here is what it is today ,RUN

What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?

Don’t trust organisations

Do you have any regrets about life since you left?

I’am proud of what I did supporting my 2nd wife and challenging an evil organisation

Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)

Bits and pieces on this site when contribting to discussion mostly

17

49th Anniversary of my PAROLE from Federal prison

by TerryWalstrom in

today is the 49th anniversaryof my parole from federal prison.

in french, "parole" means 'word of honor'.in effect, a prisoner promises the authorities they will be honorable.. in 1967, i violated the u.s. military training and service act.about 25,000 draft age americans simply ran away to canada.i did not run.

i stayed and gave my 'witness.".

wozza

Congratulations Terry ,I personally think you did what you did at the time sincerely and that's what counts. It shows what good qualities you had when young even if the cause was wrong.

My story was from another angle in those days ,I actually joined the navy at 17 ignoring my fathers request not to. You see he was a bomber in the RAF from 39-45 the whole duration and had taught me the evils of war from a young age. I wanted to see the world and put aside my anti war feelings for that ,joined and soon learned what being at war meant and it was real and I realised my mistake.

I came forward as concientious objector and the navy gave me hell ,threatened jail but they got rid of me with the optional discharge squad (you could optionally leave the service after a qualifying period)

Glad I did'nt kill any Vietnamese people and so was my dad and still proud of my stand to this day.

You stuck to your principles at that time and the motivation from your heart was the thing that mattered.

15

What are the "inner rooms" of Isaiah 26:20? The answer may surprise you !!!

by jwdoctrine in

"go, my people, enter your inner rooms, and shut your doors behind you.hide yourself for a brief moment until the wrath has passed by.

"(isaiah 26:20).

one of the questions that seem to trouble the governing body of the jehovah's witnesses in recent year is this: what will jehovah's witnesses be doing during the destruction of babylon the great?

wozza

From my first contact in the early 70's the kingdom halls were suggested as a place of protection ,but mostly what was pushed ,as many old timers know, was to keep close to the brothers in your book study groups who met in nominated homes of the group.

The idea was, if we knew and cared for each others welfare in our book study, we may be directed to the book study home for protection when the shit hit the fan ! This was pushed for many years .

It made me laugh, after I left the org ,when they stopped the arrangement and met at the halls for book study ,so the jehovah given direction was reversed after all the years .I wondered how the dead elders who pushed this shit would feel if they could come back!

I feel the not directing ones to the hall anymore may have started when bad things happened at halls around the world such as the bombing of a kingdom hall in Sydney australia. From then on the lie of people being protected from satan in a hall seemed to disturb the thinking of certain ones. And then they had special bomb squads at assemblies - I know as I was in charge of the Adelaide Australia one for a while.

But underlining all the changes is probably money and liabilty $$$

17

The JW's 2 witness rule applied to Molestation is wrong AND HERE'S WHY

by wozza in

this is not the first time i've written about this, but with the royal commission happening here in australia, and having fought against the wts on this problem of molestation in the wts over a period of 15 years i feel a need to explain what i found which contradicts what the wts says and the way they handle cases within their society.. i am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the wts says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to not handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand i think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the commission).. i,m using the revised berkely version in plain english here ,.

the context is law giving in the book of deuteronomy ch 22 : vs 22 - 27. vs 22 "when a man is surprised abed with a married woman,they shall both die ,the man who lay with the woman and the woman too; you shall wipe out the evil from israel.".

so this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.. next vs 23- 24 "when a man comes upon a girl in the city, who is a virgin betrothed to another , and he lies with her,24 you shall bring them both to the gate of the city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not cry out, although the city was all about her, and the man because he violated his neighbour's wife.

wozza

Thanks for the responses ,and Listener in regards to the WTS response that you kindly posted it is plain to me that this was a carefully compiled response by those led by lawyers and not by the holy spirit as the GB would have us believe.

I'm looking at many points which are just so wrong about their argument ,but they say at point 18. "His guilt is assumed in both instances." which is so misleading ,put that into todays cases of child molestation that the JWs handle ,I find it unlikely that the elders would just assume the perpetrators guilt , they would try to find out what had happened .

By making statements like this is trying to lead the reader into their assumption to qualify their position .

The fact is they can't lawyer away what is written in Deut: ,here they are saying he is guilty by the fact that the Judges had established improper sexual relations had occurred ,BUT THEY DO NOT STATE HOW THIS WAS ESTABLISHED ! If it was only established by what the girl said then it is by ONE witness !

But if the man admitted immediately his guilt there are two witnesses ,maybe the WTS is trying to make readers believe the judges did a vaginal inspection for seminal fluid ,who knows ? In their court reply they don't say of course how they know this transpired ,they just make a misleading statement.

Like the typically circular reasoning they have used for a long time it seems they are the scriptures can't be inconsistent because god wrote them as if that was a way to explain the bibles anomalies.

There are other wrong things in their ARC response but others may like to comment as well ,I bumped this to help people put closure in their hearts to the disgusting way the WTS has handled molestation cases and their unloving way they treat the people in the org ,I was one of the many that dealt with the WTS over this for many years with my ex wife and seen what damage was added to her load by the way they treated her (for instance one elder said to us they can't act in these cases as out of every 100 cases their might be 1 guiltless perpetrator!)

This statement then lays doubt on every victim of child abuse.

When I was a young child I was not brought up in a JW family ,but was sexually abused by my mother for years , this so weakened me that around 11 I was coerced to a car taken away and raped in scrub and left to find my way home. I kept these secrets from my father as I feared it would hurt him somehow, many years later as an adult I told him.

As an adult one of the reasons I became a JW was to find peace from a harsh world where I imagined these things don't happen ,as it turned out over the years I found out what the WTS really is thru helping my ex wife who was molested by her elder father for years .

I went back over WTS history from different sources that were'nt available to me before the internet ,and here I stand.

15

Which post has he just read, and what's he thinking?

by Fay Dehr in

.

wozza

" I just farted and these fools will think I smell sweet "

17

The JW's 2 witness rule applied to Molestation is wrong AND HERE'S WHY

by wozza in

this is not the first time i've written about this, but with the royal commission happening here in australia, and having fought against the wts on this problem of molestation in the wts over a period of 15 years i feel a need to explain what i found which contradicts what the wts says and the way they handle cases within their society.. i am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the wts says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to not handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand i think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the commission).. i,m using the revised berkely version in plain english here ,.

the context is law giving in the book of deuteronomy ch 22 : vs 22 - 27. vs 22 "when a man is surprised abed with a married woman,they shall both die ,the man who lay with the woman and the woman too; you shall wipe out the evil from israel.".

so this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.. next vs 23- 24 "when a man comes upon a girl in the city, who is a virgin betrothed to another , and he lies with her,24 you shall bring them both to the gate of the city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not cry out, although the city was all about her, and the man because he violated his neighbour's wife.

wozza

I would like to bump this back again for the new ones here to reason on.

Wozza

19

How were you 'outed' ??

by stuckinarut2 in

many of us here have been "outed" as ones who no longer believe that this is "the truth".. many didn't have the chance to do it in our own way, and in our own time, but rather someone "found out about our apostasy" and "reported" it to the spiritual police (elders).

would you like to share your stories?.

wozza

Told my book study overseer that my conscience would not allow me to preach for JW anymore as he knew my stand against pedophiles in the org

Next,soon after a couple of sisters called at my door with their children witnessing and I told them of at least one JW man in our hall who is a pedophile and named him . He was actually working with them that day next door with a child ,they thanked me for warning them to protect their children and I explained which elders knew about his pedophilia and which ones did'nt.

They obviously talked to the elders abut our conversation and two of them came to see me at home did the old "Do believe the Org is directed by the GB " spiel

No witness would walk on by my house after that and it was reported to me that I was supposed to be demonised................................... well the pedophile went to jail and they still visited him in prison.

41

suicide

by zeb in

jw
friends

who among us has known a jw who has committed suicide.

i believe this as a separate subject has not been covered..

wozza

First JW person was my mother in law, cancer, breast removed still in a bad way 2 years later ,as she was diabetic her wounds would not heal . She asked to talk to me privately one day while dressing her wounds,this was some time before i became a jw. Asked me what she should do because of the pain and misery , I asked if talking to her elders would help and she explained what their view was .Yet she wanted and trusted my view. and as I finished cleaning her wounds I suggested that if she stopped the insulin it could be seen as life running it's course .I told my wife and her sister what had transpired .they stayed that night as she gently drifted into a coma and passed away with dignity not what the elders told her . I miss her conversations it's been over fourty years now since she passed and 1975 .the release she hoped for did'nt come.

Another person was a teenager from a congo near me at the time in Queensland Australia. I used to do some building work with a brother in law and his gang of workers. He was JW and some of his young workers were too .but not all. One day travelling up the freeway to a job in his truck with the gang I saw a young man come out the bush alongside the road looking strange and distressed and I pointed this out to the brother in law who tried to ignore my plea to stop. Well one of the guys recognised the teenager and said so but this still did'nt prompt the brother in law to stop and we continued to go down the road to work.

On the news that night it was reported a teenager walked out into the highway traffic at the spot we saw him .I felt sick and we talked about it at work the next day , As it turned out the teenager was part of a group of kids in the nearby Kingdom hall to me who had been molested over the years by a JW man who used to take the kids from the hall on "private " bible studies in the bush . How do I know this ? The young man who recognised him from in our car was one of the boys who had been molested also - he was distressed beyond belief, he never spoke about it again as he did'nt attend meetings. much like the other victims.

I moved away soon after but to this day I am angry at the brother in law who would not stop .But when I think about it good won't come from bad ,he molested his wifes sister when she was 12 and that girl had his baby and yet she never left him and his JW once an Elder father is a child molestor ,still in.

32

Motorcycle talk: run what you brung

by _Morpheus in

so i saw vander posted a pic of himself on his bike and recently pm’d with another member who rides (i will let him speak for himself if he wishes) and it seems like a thing for some of us, so... whatcha got?

post a pic of your ride.....

wozza

One of my first 1973 Yamaha MX250 yellow helmet