Posts by wozza

22

The abuse of JW org

by wozza in

awhile ago i said on here i would like to show how wrong the jehovahs witness organisation is , in that they will not accept the testimony of a victim of sexual crime where the victim has no other witnesses to the crime.

i faced this with helping my ex wife for about 15 years in exposing her father , an elder, to the jw org.

his raping of her over years and they believed him.. so therefore the perpetrator knowing of the organisations stance can easily deny and therefore be free to pretend to serve as an innocent jw still mixing with the congregation ,and also i have witnessed an accused perpetrator of child molestation witnessing at my next door neighbors house in field service with a child of another family even though the elders knew of the accusations against him.

wozza

Thank you Seabreeze I was thinking of a different verse should have checked it more closely, you are right.

22

The abuse of JW org

by wozza in

awhile ago i said on here i would like to show how wrong the jehovahs witness organisation is , in that they will not accept the testimony of a victim of sexual crime where the victim has no other witnesses to the crime.

i faced this with helping my ex wife for about 15 years in exposing her father , an elder, to the jw org.

his raping of her over years and they believed him.. so therefore the perpetrator knowing of the organisations stance can easily deny and therefore be free to pretend to serve as an innocent jw still mixing with the congregation ,and also i have witnessed an accused perpetrator of child molestation witnessing at my next door neighbors house in field service with a child of another family even though the elders knew of the accusations against him.

wozza

Hi all ,just after I started this topic a personal family event came up and took up my time ,I checked in to see others had commented thanks for that and sorry for not getting back on here.

StephaneLaliberte - you seem to have taken liberty to impute to me that I " If you respect the Mosaic law so much, then you would agree with the idea of marrying a rape victim to her rapist, as stated in Deuteronomy 22:28-29".

How wrong can you be? but you seem to think so much of your opinion when it was not called for in this way.

You have missed the point entirely of this topic ,for instance I am talking about how the JW org has handled things in the past with regard to the 2 witness rule. You are deflecting away from this by somehow suggesting I would condone rape and selling a woman to the father of that woman then? I could assume that you maybe a ex member of JW org who has hidden their own molestation of children and are spitefully justifying your own filthy life ,but that would be a wrong thing to do would'nt it ,you know to, impute such a thing to a person you don't know?

My original post was meant to alert anyone having doubts about JW org to think about how they handle such a thing as sexual predators in their midst and point out that they handle things badly and choose to ignore the bibles own words in one part and yet they use a scripture in another part of the bible to make rulings on a serious problem in society and in their society.

Thanks to everyone else for their comments ,I and others I have known have suffered at the hands of perpetrators and JWorg has been of no help ,instead making peoples lives worse ,this is what I have for years been trying to make this known. But instead JWorg will use the whole bible in one case ("All scripture is inspired and for teaching reproving etc") ,yet on another occasion will say that the Hebrew scriptures have no application in certain matters.

I for one am glad that the point of my topic was actually raised at the Australian Royal Commission into child sex abuse and the JWorg was exposed as hypocrites in more than one way!

If someone thinks that JWorg has fixed their problems in this matter ,just remember it only changed when governments have tried fix it firstly by making organisations change their policies and become accountable.

22

The abuse of JW org

by wozza in

awhile ago i said on here i would like to show how wrong the jehovahs witness organisation is , in that they will not accept the testimony of a victim of sexual crime where the victim has no other witnesses to the crime.

i faced this with helping my ex wife for about 15 years in exposing her father , an elder, to the jw org.

his raping of her over years and they believed him.. so therefore the perpetrator knowing of the organisations stance can easily deny and therefore be free to pretend to serve as an innocent jw still mixing with the congregation ,and also i have witnessed an accused perpetrator of child molestation witnessing at my next door neighbors house in field service with a child of another family even though the elders knew of the accusations against him.

wozza

Awhile ago I said on here I would like to show how wrong the Jehovahs Witness organisation is , in that they will not accept the testimony of a victim of sexual crime where the victim has no other witnesses to the crime. I faced this with helping my ex wife for about 15 years in exposing her father , an elder, to the JW org. his raping of her over years and they believed him.

So therefore the perpetrator knowing of the organisations stance can easily deny and therefore be free to pretend to serve as an innocent JW still mixing with the congregation ,and also I have witnessed an accused perpetrator of child molestation witnessing at my next door neighbors house in field service with a child of another family even though the elders knew of the accusations against him. (this person was taken to court later by members of his family for molesting children in the family ,he was put in prison by their evidence but the JW elders chose not to act on the evidence for these crimes ,disgusting )

So what does the JW org believe is a good enough reason to not report to the police historic sexual crime to the authorities? Or even act upon the crimes within it’s own ranks?

Simply put they quote the bible ,as at 2 Corinthians ch:13 vs:1

“This is the third time I am coming to you. “On the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter must be established””

Upon reading the context could this text be so broadly interpreted as to include sexual crime ? Judge for yourself , but if the JW org is correct then , they are inconsistent to the extreme with what is written earlier in the bible! I know this has been covered before but daily there are JW’s questioning their faith and I would like show how corrupt the JW org is and how cruel they are and have been in the past with their own people.

Ok so now what’s the evidence against JW cruelty?

Deuteronomy Ch:22 vs:22 – 29 Notice in vs 23-24 a virgin is engaged to a man but another man comes along and they have sex and are brought to the gate of the city for judging ,he is stoned to death and so is she .Why is she not spared? The scripture says she did not SCREAM so it gives the impression that she was compliant as well.

But next in vs: 25 – 27 Changes the location to a field where an engaged virgin is working and the man overpowers her and rapes her. Now it says the girl IS to be saved ,why? It says she committed no crime because it’s like one man attacking another man and murdering him.

Vs:27 gives the answer she was spared “For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl SCREAMED,but there was NO ONE to protect her.” So the man was put to death on her evidence and say so, her father would have had to show the evidence of her virginity from what I read .

If I can work this out why can’t the JW org feel they have to ignore this ,in matters like this they quote 2 Corinthians CH13 vs1 .By ignoring this they reveal themselves to be incompetent liars ,or ,

they are trying to hide the evidence that the bible is contradictory.Which is it?

There has been untold damage done by the JW org keeping to their false “truths”, the governing body have proven to be gutless in handling these affairs and they use the bible to hide what the bible says, if judicial systems can try to solve these crimes why can’t these men who are supposed to be lead by god?

I hope this helps someone.

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26

How are new Servants and Elders appointed?

by no-zombie in

now that we have the tick-a-box field service reporting method, how are brothers measured fit for an appointment as a ms or elder?

has there been clarification in any of the recent elders schools or in meetings with the co?.

wozza

Criteria 2

Just keep it to yourself that you had sex with your wifes best friend 15 years ago and soon after be appointed by holy spirit (coz that's what the governing body teaches), to be an elder.

Actual case of my book study conductor ,what a test of faith for his wife and children in the teaching of the governing body. Pray all you like but there will be no help from Jehovah and in the end he was re-appointed.

31

Canada exploring changes to tax rules that exempt religious organizations

by Scully in

jw
friends

https://www.christianpost.com/news/evangelicals-oppose-removal-of-tax-status-in-canadian-proposal.html.

the proposed change will revoke charitable status of canadian churches who have an anti-abortion position, and will not give tax exemptions to organizations whose sole claim is to promote religion, which is the basic claim for all jw related entities in canada.

this will be interesting!.

wozza

Mmmm let's see ,JW org does no genuine charitable works for people outside their own people.CHECK

JW org has anti abortion stance I suppose (though not loud about it) CHECK

JW org gets money for free from it's members even when they die CHECK

JW org uses it's members to build their real estate portfolio for free CHECK

JW org takes ownership of Kingdom halls at most paying out loans CHECK

JW org just uses people and throws them away if they question anything CHECK

And then they join forces with other orgs to drag money out of governments who give it to them in good faith CHECK

Seems just like a prostitute who wants easy money for little or no emotional outlay !

13

Witnesses after Covid shut down are increasing their calls around my neighborhood

by wozza in

jw
friends

hi all , i just had another call by a an elderly jw ,let's call him ian.. only about 3 months ago i had a young jw call and trying to talk to him i had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and i've had others call since covid.. so it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when i used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.. but back to my caller ian ,on his own , but out with a group of jw's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so i interrupted him tactfully to slow him down.

started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that i had my first contact with jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided jw ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.. at this point he jumps in and wants to know if i would want a study again because i told him that i once did a study with jw's back.

i carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then.

wozza

Thanks all for your responses ,each time they call I try to get them to think about their beliefs but either they don't read the DNC list or they just ignore it now because they keep coming back for more .

Rivergang - I used to live there on the Sunshine Coast for 8 years and have given some of my experiences on here about what went on in the congos suicide ,child molestation etc ,its the same where one seems to go in JW lala land.

I have not seen any apathy carts either Beth Sarim but they seem to be making an effort in door to door work ,but they don't seem as energetic as we used to be years ago and just seem to want to hit and run and they live in their delusions more now.

I don't try to be rude to them but I don't hold back from pointing out their wrong ,with "Ian" ,since he was an old timer ,I tried to reason with him on how the WTS used to ban organ transplants trying to say it was cannibalism ,but then later allowed transplants but he said he never recalled that being the case -apalling! I then asked him how he thought the JW's who lost loved ones over this would feel ,he ignored me and looked down.

As I said to the elder I last went on field service with about20 years ago "my conscience does not allow me to do this anymore" and I stopped going to meetings shortly after.

13

Witnesses after Covid shut down are increasing their calls around my neighborhood

by wozza in

jw
friends

hi all , i just had another call by a an elderly jw ,let's call him ian.. only about 3 months ago i had a young jw call and trying to talk to him i had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and i've had others call since covid.. so it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when i used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.. but back to my caller ian ,on his own , but out with a group of jw's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so i interrupted him tactfully to slow him down.

started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that i had my first contact with jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided jw ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.. at this point he jumps in and wants to know if i would want a study again because i told him that i once did a study with jw's back.

i carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then.

wozza

Hi all , I just had another call by a an elderly JW ,let's call him Ian.

Only about 3 months ago I had a young JW call and trying to talk to him I had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and I've had others call since Covid.

So it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when I used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.

But back to my caller Ian ,on his own , but out with a group of JW's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so I interrupted him tactfully to slow him down. Started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that I had my first contact with Jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided JW ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.

At this point he jumps in and wants to know if I would want a study again because I told him that I once did a study with JW's back. I carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then. He tells me he was a witness back then and had in this context been around Africa and other places then so I assumed he was a missionary or pioneer at one time.

But the he jumped back with would I want a study and why I had given up the study. Trying to keep it simple I explained I had done a study back then using the blue truth book ,he said he studied the same book so we had something in common.

But again he tried to control the conversation on his terms about a study but i went back to that time and reminded him it was a time that JW's were excited about 1975. His eyes glazed over and then partially closed them and went on the attack with the lie that was when some people said that was was what witnesses were teaching but we were'nt !

Oh I said my MIL said nobody knows the day or the hour ,but my study conductor who was an elder believed it look like armmaggedon would be october 1975. Back came that attack look in his eyes and I said to him I was there and at least some JW's believed that. This was confirmed years later because I became a JW early 1980's and spoke to many who told me of their selling of cars and properties to go pioneering ,some borrowing money because they thought they won't have to pay it back etc because in 1975 was coming.

Ian repeated he did'nt believe that back then and ignored the fact that alot of JW"S believed in 1975 . I said you asked me why I stopped studying back then and here is why, MIL did'nt believe it but my study conductor did so I saw no unity of belief back then pre 75. I could see his frustration so I moved on quickly to say I did become a JW years later became a ministerial servant ,very active ministry brought many with my wife into the JW fold - by this time his eyes were opening, along the way I saw and experienced alot of hypocrisy and challenged the elders many times and never got satisfying answers.

Then I said said my pioneer wife cheated on me and left the young children with me to raise. By this time he was looking to get out of there, but I went on that I re married a witness woman and found out on our wedding night or there abouts that she had been molested over years by her elder father and we spent 15 years trying to get the Watchtower to handle this which they never did. It went to civil court but my wife could not cope any more and withdrew the case from the courts as none of her sisters would back her up, and they only admitted to being abused to here years after the court case was dropped .

Of course "poor" Ian was looking for a get away he was lucky because his wife was out too and rang him. At that point it dawned on me how things had changed over the years when witnessing, I remember going to the doors carrying a big leather bag with a bible ,tracts ,magazines etc and here is Ian with a mobile phone in one hand answering calls at my door and a tablet in the other hand ,something the society condemned years ago!

I closed with telling him I can't study with him because of what I have seen and at that I found in the Hebrew scriptures a reason that the JW 2 witness rule is utter crap and showed this on this forum when the Australian Royal Commission on child abuse started it used that reasoning from the Hebrew scriptures to show the Watchtower reps they were wrong on this issue.

Well that did it for Ian ,I said I know where the kingdom hall ,I helped build it brick by brick but i won't belong to an organization that corrupt.

Looking forward to seeing the next witness at my home, but they suffer in their cognitive dissonance when they come.

I will soon do another topic on how the WT ignores the truth in the bible later .

28

Have you seen a UFO/UAP?

by BoogerMan in

the acronym uap once stood for "unidentified aerial phenomena," until december 2022. .

then the pentagon updated its terminology to encompass "submerged and trans-medium objects.".

https://www.defense.gov/news/transcripts/transcript/article/3249303/usdis-ronald-moultrie-and-dr-sean-kirkpatrick-media-roundtable-on-the-all-domai/.

wozza

Hi all ,have'nt been here for a while but this topic caught my eye .

I will tell my story about UFO's if you all promise to be kind.

I grew up in Adelaide South Australia and once in about 1970 I went fishing off the Semaphore jetty with some of the boys I grew up with in my area. It was a clear night with the stars clearly shining and things were quiet fishing wise, and we were just chatting when one of us spotted movement of a bright light ,about the size of a bright star but as it moved across the sky it was clear it was in our atmosphere as compared to the stars.

I remember we thought it must just be the light of a plane perhaps heading to the Adelaide airport ,but suddenly it was joined by several othe bright lights exactly the same and they moved up and down and across the sky at incredible speeds and we all felt fear for the first time ,nervously we talked about this display trying to explain it away .This display lasted about 10 -15 minutes and we gradually stopped talking about it and gave up on the fishing trip and went home and we never talked about it again as a group though the boy who lived next door to me talked about it privately once ,I think that we just felt we would get in trouble for making up stories.

I never forgot that experience and years later when I was married with babies and a wife in a different area a neighbor invited us over for dinner and slide show . When that was finished I conversed with the guy who was a air traffic controller ,he'd been on assignment for 2 years at Leigh Creek coal mining town , at the airport but now was back in Adelaide doing his job at the Adelaide airport.

Well I asked him about UFO's and he was hesitant but after making me swear not to tell anyone his experiences he told me they picked them up often doing impossible movements and speed on the radar which covered all of South Australian airspace. He did not elaborate with dates etc but he was sure they were nothing our science at that time could make. It just left me with a relief that I had seen something real back then but what it was exactly I don't know because they did not come down and give me a piece of evidence ,we just saw what we saw., and have not had another experience like it since.

So has anyone else seen this kind of thing?

14

Did Jesus have a pre-existence or was he fully human, begotten at his human birth.

by gavindlt in

so when was jesus begotten.

was he truly and wholly fully human.

did he exist in two states, part human part god.

wozza

myelaine

"Jesus was body, soul and spirit. His soul & spirit were perfectly in tune with the Fathers law & will. His body didn't need to be perfect, nor could it be. His body became perfect when it was "glorified" in the resurrection. It is that soul & spirit that had pre-existance with the Father. "

Thank you for your response ,This is where different peoples interpretations come into it ,so Jesus was flesh like us but how a spirit and a soul? Some would say his spirit was what went to heaven but then did he leave his body and soul behind on earth? Others might have a different view that the soul and spirit are but the same thing so we are back to jesus having 2 components , a soul/spirit and a flesh body.

I wonder what the bible really says and is it any wonder that there are so many confusing teachings from people who believe in the same source of their belief - the bible.

Is this 3 component Jesus the result of catholic original teaching?

What about a person being descibed AS A soul or dead soul?

How can any person reaching out to the bible for hope comfort and belief just accept a flavor of christianity when the essence of divinity is descibed in different ways ?

Where in the bible does it say Jesus's soul and spirit were in line with the fathers will apart from his body when he was on earth?

14

Did Jesus have a pre-existence or was he fully human, begotten at his human birth.

by gavindlt in

so when was jesus begotten.

was he truly and wholly fully human.

did he exist in two states, part human part god.

wozza

So if The holy spirit fell upon Mary (an imperfect sinner like we all are supposed to be) ,the imperfect egg in her body was inseminated by a supposedly perfect sperm ,and this genetic code from both of them eventually became Jesus?

Then Jesus was a hybrid species ,sort of like mating a horse with a donkey ,and getting a mule which can't reproduce ? But are'nt we told that he was perfect in human form ?

I can't find any specific statement saying that the holy spirit made Mary's egg perfect ,can anyone?

Could Jesus have been imperfect then until he was taken up to heaven ? Was he only half perfect?

If Jesus was imperfect to a degree then did he actually offer a perfect sacrifice for mankind to be saved?

Do the catholics believe Mary was made perfect at the holy spirit insemination of her ? and is that why they worship her as a perfect being?

Round and round we go the ragged rock of man made religious stories that never harmonise with reality.