Posts by wozza

21

Jehovah's Witnesses "Handling Child Abuse Matters" flowchart

by jwleaks in

jw leaks courtesy of the australian royal commission.

.

wozza

The WTS is interested in totally minimizing news of molestation and keeping it quiet from others in the org and congregations , to demonstrate this consider one personal account of dealing with elders in my old congregation.

There were 10 elders in my congregation and when I reported to the PO that they had a pedophile in their midst who that week had been witnessing in my street with a youth as his assistant the elder was stunned I knew that the man was a pedophile so we made arrangements for the elder to come back to my place later to talk further about this.

When he came he brought another elder with him ,we talked and I pointed out that this pedophile had grabbed and hugged a young child at the back of the KH after one meeting and I witnessed it and the childs grand mother.

They tried to minimize this act and I pointed out that they had to protect the congo from predators like this (the pedo was an ex elder). They wanted to know how I knew the man was a pedo and I proceeded to tell them that was'nt the issue here .

Now the PO new the man was but I don't think the other elder did so I asked why the second elder did not know and the PO said only the 3 committee members of the case needed to know because of privacy.

Well I turned to the other elder who was fairly new to our congo and had moved in from another state 2 years or so before with his wife and 12 year old daughter. So I asked him how he felt about a pedo in the congo which,as an elder , he did not know about ,I asked how can a body of 10 elders in our congo be expected to protect the children in the congo when only 3 of 10 elders even knew about the pedo in our midst - mind you this pedo had nearly all publisher privileges including answering at the Watchtower study etc

This did not sit well with them but I pursued reasoning with the new elder and asked him what he would feel like if ,in a few years , his daughter came forward and said a brother molested her back in their old congo by a pedo who was only known to 3 elders of a complete body, how would you ? knowing that only a small number of shepherds could protect his daughter and that if he knew who the pedo was he could have protected here but could'nt because of WTS policy .

Needless to say he looked ill and they both left promptly ,sad but true story and i bet there's lots more like it.

AN ADDITION TO THIS STORY IS THAT THE PEDO ENDED UP IN JAIL BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE ELDERS ,HE WAS CHARGED FROM OUTSIDE THE CONGO FOR MOLESTATION AND THEY EVEN USED TO VISIT HIM IN JAIL ,ITS A BIT LIKE WHAT CAME OUT AT THE ROYAL COMMISION - THEY CARE MORE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF THE PERPETRATOR THAN THE VICTIMS

20

How many of the 1.006 alleged abusers will be investigated by Police?

by Listener in

the commission has the names of 1,006 alleged abusers within australian congregations since 1950. some will have died and others will already have been prosecuted but the branch did not report any of these allegations to police.. the terms of reference for the royal commission is more about redress for the victims but that can include criminal prosecution although they are more focused on financial compensation.. however, now that they have the names of 1,006 potential criminals there is some responsibility to see that they are dealt with criminally.

it appears to be in their authority to have cases followed through by referring them for further investigation.

this is clear because the commissioner has recently reported that to date, they have done so in 493 cases identified within the scope of their commission.

wozza

My ex was one of the victims and recieved a letter from the service committee so I would like to know if she is one of the 1006 ,if not that would show that they are burying records ,I will contact her and see if she still has that letter.

17

The JW's 2 witness rule applied to Molestation is wrong AND HERE'S WHY

by wozza in

this is not the first time i've written about this, but with the royal commission happening here in australia, and having fought against the wts on this problem of molestation in the wts over a period of 15 years i feel a need to explain what i found which contradicts what the wts says and the way they handle cases within their society.. i am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the wts says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to not handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand i think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the commission).. i,m using the revised berkely version in plain english here ,.

the context is law giving in the book of deuteronomy ch 22 : vs 22 - 27. vs 22 "when a man is surprised abed with a married woman,they shall both die ,the man who lay with the woman and the woman too; you shall wipe out the evil from israel.".

so this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.. next vs 23- 24 "when a man comes upon a girl in the city, who is a virgin betrothed to another , and he lies with her,24 you shall bring them both to the gate of the city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not cry out, although the city was all about her, and the man because he violated his neighbour's wife.

wozza

Yep and if they go back on their old teachings they will be burnt alive and they know it .so they continue to ignore this "new light " that I've pointed to from their own crap book and make exceptions !

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

wozza

O'brien suffer in your jocks

17

The JW's 2 witness rule applied to Molestation is wrong AND HERE'S WHY

by wozza in

this is not the first time i've written about this, but with the royal commission happening here in australia, and having fought against the wts on this problem of molestation in the wts over a period of 15 years i feel a need to explain what i found which contradicts what the wts says and the way they handle cases within their society.. i am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the wts says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to not handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand i think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the commission).. i,m using the revised berkely version in plain english here ,.

the context is law giving in the book of deuteronomy ch 22 : vs 22 - 27. vs 22 "when a man is surprised abed with a married woman,they shall both die ,the man who lay with the woman and the woman too; you shall wipe out the evil from israel.".

so this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.. next vs 23- 24 "when a man comes upon a girl in the city, who is a virgin betrothed to another , and he lies with her,24 you shall bring them both to the gate of the city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not cry out, although the city was all about her, and the man because he violated his neighbour's wife.

wozza

This is not the first time I've written about this, but with the Royal Commission happening here in Australia, and having fought against the WTS on this problem of molestation in the WTS over a period of 15 Years I feel a need to explain what I found which contradicts what the WTS says and the way they handle cases within their society.

I am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the WTS says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to NOT handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand I think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the Commission).

I,m using the Revised Berkely version in plain English here ,

The context is law giving in the Book of Deuteronomy CH 22 : VS 22 - 27

vS 22 "WHEN A MAN IS SURPRISED ABED WITH A MARRIED WOMAN,THEY SHALL BOTH DIE ,THE MAN WHO LAY WITH THE WOMAN AND THE WOMAN TOO; YOU SHALL WIPE OUT THE EVIL FROM ISRAEL."

So this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.

Next Vs 23- 24 "WHEN A MAN COMES UPON A GIRL IN THE CITY, WHO IS A VIRGIN BETROTHED TO ANOTHER , AND HE LIES WITH HER,24 YOU SHALL BRING THEM BOTH TO THE GATE OF THE CITY AND STONE THEM TO DEATH, THE GIRL BECAUSE SHE DID NOT CRY OUT, ALTHOUGH THE CITY WAS ALL ABOUT HER, AND THE MAN BECAUSE HE VIOLATED HIS NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE. YOU SHALL PURGE SUCH EVIL FROM AMONG YOU ."

Vs25-27 This where the point is " BUT IF THE MAN COMES UPON THE BETROTHED GIRL IN THE OPEN FIELD ,AND SEIZES HER TO LIE WITH HER ,THEN THE MAN ALONE SHALL DIE. 26 YOU MUST DO NOTHING TO THE GIRL, FOR THERE IS NO SIN IN HER TO DESERVE DEATH; FOR IT IS AS WHEN A MAN ATTACKS HIS NEIGHBOUR AND MURDERS HIM; 27 THE MAN FOUND HER IN THE OPEN COUNTRY; THE BETROTHED GIRL CRIED OUT FOR HELP, BUT THERE WAS NO-ONE TO HEAR HER.

Vs28-29 This shows that if the girl is not betrothed but is forced into sex she has to marry him and pay her father 50 silver coins (crazy huh?)

The point is though is vs 25-27 which shows that the girl is raped in the open field with no-one to cry out to but the man is still put to death and the event must be revealed by her ,the only witness and then he is judged to die. NO 2 WITNESSES HERE !!!

SO THE QUESTION HAS TO BE ASKED OF THE WTS "WHY CAN'T THEY SEE THIS THRU THEIR EYES OF HOLY SPIRIT AND DEAL WITH THE PEDO'S ACCORDINGLY?"

Am I seeing this correctly ? I don't see any other alternative but to take this scripture as a precedent to dealing with molestors AND giving some peace and love to those abused ones ,have'nt they been abused enough WTS?

40

Is the two-witness rule really unreasonable?

by stillin in

i'm picturing a situation in which a savvy 12 year old doesn't like the house rules that mom's new husband has put into place.

or something along that line.

i can certainly agree that protection of children is paramount, but who protects the real victim in those cases?

wozza

The topic here is the very explanation an elder in the Burpengary North congregation Queensland Australia gave to me as to why the society does not act against pedos ....there might be only one supposed victim who lies (very rare) but at the sacrifice of thousands of true victims he said it was worth not acting against perpetrators because of the lying one ,I explained to him how disgusted I was with him and the society .

56

The Australian Royal Commission hearings on the JWs handling of child abuse begins here in the US later today. It will be streamed.

by AndersonsInfo in

the royal commission hearing starting on monday, july 27, 2015 - australian day and date - (and it could go on until august 7th depending on how many witnesses testify) regarding jehovah's witnesses handling of child abuse is supposed to be streamed.. it could be that the hearing will only be audio not video although we were informed it will be streamed.

we'll find out in a few hours.. i live in the central time zone of the us and right now here it is sunday, 3: 45 pm.

in sydney, australia, it is 15 hours ahead of us.

wozza

And to think the witnesses are only the tip of the iceberg ,theres plenty who have left the org or are still in and scared ,makes me feel sick for them having fought the org for years with my ex over this.

Really hope positive things can come from today.

51

Why hasn’t someone gotten real pissed off yet?

by John Aquila in

i keep reading of some guy who is so upset at someone that he goes into a theater and shoots 20 people..

or a kid that is so mad that the other kids made fun of him that he goes to school and shoots a bunch of kids..

or some guy that was fired from his job and he goes back and shoots of bunch of his workers.

wozza

I remember when Franz came to Oz and I was appointed to "security" and wondered about something bad might happen ,but not many of us knew how he was to get to the football ground and which gate he might come through.

Well all of a sudden a black limosine came to the gate I was attending and we opened up the gates and it drove up to the podium on the playing field. I thought at the time that this is no humble servant but a godlike person who is being treated as such, which really disturbed me as I'd been pumped full of that crap that they are'nt special , just human like us blah blah. He came with an entourage and every one was pumped in "security " that he was special including myself ,and I then thought he could be taken out just like anyone whose famous .His talk was just the usual meanderings of an old blind man I guess as the talk left no impression on me.

This was one of the moments I thought I had doubts developing way back then.

51

Why hasn’t someone gotten real pissed off yet?

by John Aquila in

i keep reading of some guy who is so upset at someone that he goes into a theater and shoots 20 people..

or a kid that is so mad that the other kids made fun of him that he goes to school and shoots a bunch of kids..

or some guy that was fired from his job and he goes back and shoots of bunch of his workers.

wozza

Often wondered about this but when its considered that the religion has only a tiny percentage of the worlds population in it , the chances of violence happening is slim as the people that were in were trying to live moally balanced lives with good hearts .

And how often does the leaders of other churches have to deal with violence , probably the same as the JWs ? Could it be said that Jehovah is protecting the GB ? not likely anymore than other religious leaders after all they are as accessible to the R & F as the pope.

6

TESTING Watchtower claims of "progressive truth" against actual history

by Terry in

proving watchtower malfeasance.

to catch the governing body in a big, fat lie, we must compare the excuse given for changing previous teachings against actual watchtower history and publications.

are changes in doctrine progressive by adding to understandingorare they regressive, merely repeating exactly what was previously taught?.

wozza

Thank you for that Terry ,what weasel words , if they had kept to Russells teaching they would have probably behaved the same way as a people during that war period .That is definitely the catch of the day in my book thanks again