Bump!!!
ziddina
JoinedPosts by ziddina
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Believers, do you believe in evolution?
by everchangingworld inafter leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.
they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.
critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.
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ziddina
"... Fact is that the RCC has alays been a supporter of science,..." PSacramento, page 8
"In the long History of the Catholic Church, there have been countless Catholic scientists and scholars who have expanded scientific knowledge across a diverse range of fields. The church itself has often been a patron of the sciences. Its longstanding commitment to expanding literacy and numeracy through education, and its provision of medical services has in many respects aided scientific development. However, there have also been occasions where Church authorities have viewed scientists or their discoveries as a threat to church teachings, or where scientific discoveries have contradicted the common understanding of scripture or challenged the intellectual opinions or beliefs of several bishops."
Bold and hi-lite mine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science#Copernicus
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News Follow-up on 2002 Beheading and Kidnap of Jehovah's Witnesses.
by Balaamsass inwitnesses fail to identify abu sayyaf suspectsphilippine daily inquirer.
4:41 am | tuesday, december 4th, 2012 <span class="postauthor">posted by <a href="http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/author/besguerra" title="posts by besguerra" rel="author">besguerra</a></span>0665start share this /metas suspected abu sayyaf terrorists wrongly arrested for the 2002 abduction of several jehovahs witnesses in patikul, sulu, may be released before the end of the month.. twenty-one accused claiming innocence were presented at a hearing on the reinvestigation of the kidnap-for-ransom case conducted by the department of justice on monday, but eight of them were pointed to by two witnessesone of them a former hostageas being members of the terror group.. it was the third reinvestigation of the aug. 20, 2002, abduction of four women and two men who were members of the religious group in patikul.. the two men were beheaded by the abu sayyaf while the women were rescued by police and the military.. at the start of the hearing, senior assistant state prosecutor peter ong said it was the prosecutors themselves who pushed for the reinvestigation.. we noticed, for instance, two persons being arrested under one name and we noticed an injustice there, said ong, adding that the pasig rtc ordered them to conduct the reinvestigation in 60 days.. all 21 abu sayyaf members who were handcuffed were made to line up for identification in batches to face two of the three witnesses who were brought in, their faces concealed.. of the 21, the eight who were pointed to by two witnesses denied the accusation.. one of the eight, julhassan a. jaani ybanez, was identified by the female witness as the one who beheaded her husband.. but ybanez denied this, saying he was an imam (muslim leader) and an assistant of col. akho san juan, the military chaplain of the western mindanao command.
he said he was arrested in 2006. christine o. avendano.
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ziddina
Thanks for posting that, suavojr...
"And you really believe treating this with levity is right!..." Princecharmant
No one is treating it with "levity". My comment about "Theocratic Warfare" backfiring on them was quite serious - I've posted in the past about the calloused attitudes of the Watchtower Society [under Rutherford] when they 'threw' the German Jehovah's Witnesses to Hitler's wolves by insisting that the German brothers "persevere under persecution" instead of applying more fitting scriptural counsel about leaving the area of danger or remaining silent while a danger exists.
But such actions do not provide the Watchtower Society with highly sympathetic martyrs.
One could also look at the terrible mistreatment that the Malawiian Jehovah's Witnesses were subjected to, under Knorr, if I recall correctly. Instead of being given simple counsel that a "political" card in a country with only one party really doesn't constitute 'choosing' to side with Satan', they counselled the Malawiian brothers and sisters to "stand fast in their faith" - all while allowing the MEXICAN brothers to BRIBE PUBLIC OFFICIALS to obtain "military" papers stating - FALSELY - that the young Mexican brothers had 'served their required military period'...!!
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For the GB, it's all about attention!
by NoRegrets inso this is probably not a big revelation for anyone, but a little for myself.
or at least a sum up of why the jws still cling to many of their beliefs and practices are to gain them notoriety and attention.
so many of the non-witness friends i have now remember the jw kids they grew up with only because they weren't allowed to celebrate the holidays.
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ziddina
Bumping this excellent and under-viewed thread again...
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159
Believers, do you believe in evolution?
by everchangingworld inafter leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.
they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.
critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.
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ziddina
Referring to Botchtower's comments...
The Roman Catholic church is a good example of Christians who are able to believe in a god [yes, that johnny-come-lately Middle-Eastern sheepherding males' volcano god that I'm always referring to ...] without having to reject scientific discoveries, information and evidence.
Not that it was ALWAYS so with the Catholic Church [cough cough copernicus cough cough] but at least the Catholics have been willing to change and move forward with the rest of humanity - compare their response to their pedophile problem - admittedly, only after they were caught, but - compare their response with that of the Watchtower Society...
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News Follow-up on 2002 Beheading and Kidnap of Jehovah's Witnesses.
by Balaamsass inwitnesses fail to identify abu sayyaf suspectsphilippine daily inquirer.
4:41 am | tuesday, december 4th, 2012 <span class="postauthor">posted by <a href="http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/author/besguerra" title="posts by besguerra" rel="author">besguerra</a></span>0665start share this /metas suspected abu sayyaf terrorists wrongly arrested for the 2002 abduction of several jehovahs witnesses in patikul, sulu, may be released before the end of the month.. twenty-one accused claiming innocence were presented at a hearing on the reinvestigation of the kidnap-for-ransom case conducted by the department of justice on monday, but eight of them were pointed to by two witnessesone of them a former hostageas being members of the terror group.. it was the third reinvestigation of the aug. 20, 2002, abduction of four women and two men who were members of the religious group in patikul.. the two men were beheaded by the abu sayyaf while the women were rescued by police and the military.. at the start of the hearing, senior assistant state prosecutor peter ong said it was the prosecutors themselves who pushed for the reinvestigation.. we noticed, for instance, two persons being arrested under one name and we noticed an injustice there, said ong, adding that the pasig rtc ordered them to conduct the reinvestigation in 60 days.. all 21 abu sayyaf members who were handcuffed were made to line up for identification in batches to face two of the three witnesses who were brought in, their faces concealed.. of the 21, the eight who were pointed to by two witnesses denied the accusation.. one of the eight, julhassan a. jaani ybanez, was identified by the female witness as the one who beheaded her husband.. but ybanez denied this, saying he was an imam (muslim leader) and an assistant of col. akho san juan, the military chaplain of the western mindanao command.
he said he was arrested in 2006. christine o. avendano.
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ziddina
"...and tried to pass themselves off as Avon reps in order to preach the word. ..."
If that's the case, Painted ToeNail, then I'd say that "Theocratic Warfare" sure backfired...
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For the GB, it's all about attention!
by NoRegrets inso this is probably not a big revelation for anyone, but a little for myself.
or at least a sum up of why the jws still cling to many of their beliefs and practices are to gain them notoriety and attention.
so many of the non-witness friends i have now remember the jw kids they grew up with only because they weren't allowed to celebrate the holidays.
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ziddina
"...point. this was one of the prettiest families i have seen in a while. if he had made a presentation and if i didnt know the schpeil, i might have taken bait based on my perception." fakesmile, above.
That reminds me of a funny story...
A while back, stuck in a grocery store in Billings, Montana, I had the opportunity to observe a VERY funny exchange take place among a Jehovah's Witness family. A father, a lovely red-headed mother, and a little girl and boy, whose ages I would have guessed at 6 and 8.
The husband and wife, both very attractive and very nicely dressed, were standing in the store discussing something - I didn't catch THAT part, but the discussion got heated, tempers flared, and they ended up yelling at each other, in public.
Then, unable to resolve their conflict amicably, the two parents turned their backs on each other - and in one of the most chilling demonstrations of using a child as a surrogate adult/mate, the father turned to the little girl and began cooing over her while the mother turned to the little boy and focused all her attentions upon him.
It was funny, sad and frighteningly telling, all at once.
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Milan Italy Public Demonstration against ostracism practiced by the Watchtower.
by Nick! inmilan italy public demonstration against ostracism practiced by the watchtower.. .
two years after rome, yesterday december 1st, day by day, we were about 100 of us demonstrating on a public square in the center of milan, italy.. .
at about 10-11 a.m. many of us were already on the spot, installing our gazebo on the public square where we were granted authorization by the police and starting the distribution of about 4000 tracts to passersby in the surrounding squares, boulevards and streets exposing the watchtower for its teachings and instructions on discriminating those who decide to use their rights to walk away from this religious movement without to have to incur the ostracism imposed by the leadership.
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ziddina
In the past, certain ex-JWs who organize demonstrations have come onto this board and urged their fellow expatriates to join in demonstrating at Jehovah's Witness assemblies.
Threads on the topic have gone back and forth, but one aspect of that sort of demonstration always stuck in my mind...
The active Jehovah's Witnesses attending assemblies are so deeply invested in the Watchtower Society [for the most part] that they are unlikely to consider the information put forth by "apostates" - on placards and so forth.
But informing the general public - that's cutting off one of their sources for new converts. You know the saying - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Zid
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For the GB, it's all about attention!
by NoRegrets inso this is probably not a big revelation for anyone, but a little for myself.
or at least a sum up of why the jws still cling to many of their beliefs and practices are to gain them notoriety and attention.
so many of the non-witness friends i have now remember the jw kids they grew up with only because they weren't allowed to celebrate the holidays.
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ziddina
Very true, fakesmile.
When one looks at human history, there's a LONG line of religions and belief systems that have done just that, though.
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ziddina
"...How many have died because of the WITCHTOWER policies on blood, vaccines, blood fractions and transplants..." Hamsterbait, page 2
That aspect of human behavior - the way humans perceive danger as imminently threatening or posing "less" of a threat, has always fascinated me.
People tend to get excited over dangers that are statistically very minor - people are far more afraid of shark attacks than they are of driving to work or to the grocery store - but guess which one kills more people?
High body-counts over a very short time is usually more dramatic than the slower and far less visible rate of death due to refusing certain medical procedures.
For that matter, referring to medical procedures, in the United States alone, at least 44,000 people die annually due to medical errors - errors made by doctors, nurses and other medical personnel. http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
Not to discount the deaths of Jehovah's Witnesses due to the bizarre edicts of the Watchtower Society, but the same principle applies - neither death rate is highly visible over a short period of time, as are 'mass' suicides in extreme cults.