Posts by androb31

83

Do You Consider yourself an Atheist / Agnostic / or Christian? Reasons ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after having been raised in the jehovah's witnesses for 44 years ( getting out 6 years ago ) i have now come to peace with my view of what i personally feel about the existence of god , or no god, or whatever is flying around up there in outer space.

i am basically agnostic for sure / perhaps leaning atheist and i've come to that decision based on the years and years of unfulfilled false promises of being in a mind control cult ( jehovah's witnesses ) claiming to represent an alleged " god " or " jehovah " saying there would be a paradise, and armageddon to destroy 99% of the earths population.

also- i enjoy helping others without thought of being rewarded for it.

androb31

Christian - Personal experience and direct intervention by Jesus. At the time you could say I humored myself and asked Him to deliver me from alcoholism (I struggled throughout a good portion of my JW career). My sister insisted that I ask Jesus to help me and if nothing happened then no loss no gain. I was like what the heck nothing else is working. I was still a JW at the time so of course I thought I was stepping into heresy by circumventing Jehovah. Anyway, I did it and within days I recovered and haven't looked back since. Call it what you will.

All of this came about after many many years of unsuccessful attempts, miserable failures, multiple in/out-patient rehabs, prayers, jc hearings, public reproofs, forced interventions and so on. That of course was only the first of many amazing things I've since experienced. One thing that amazes me is how much my view towards so-called "worldly" human beings (armegeddon fodder) has changed from a judgemental, holier than thou "convert or die" JW stance to a real love of neighbor. After 32 years of being indoctrinated in the JW "brand" of "christian love" I couldn't believe the changes that happened virtually overnight. Now I'm far more concerned with how I can contribute to other peoples lives and community instead of how much I can do for the borg.

Just my 2 cents.....

24

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-12-09 WT Study (DAY NEAR)

by blondie in

jw
friends

(b) pressing on to maturity requires effort in what two areas?

(read hebrews 5:14.

2:10) moreover, their perceptive powers are trained through use--through application of what they know--helping them to distinguish right from wrong.

androb31

I found this statement the most compelling in this whole article, "Will we prove to be obedient to whatever future urgent direction we way receive from "the faithful steward"?"

What future "urgent" direction? As in.... The tribulation is here, come into the Kingdom Hall and drink the koolaid. It'll let you fall asleep until everything is over with and all wickedness is gone. Jim Jones comes to mind.....Scary!!!!

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"As for "accurate perception of truth" for "spirit of truth [a.k.a. "holy spirit"], again I see no problem. If I ask for the meaning of "spirit of the law", would I not be fair in suggesting "accurate perception of the law"? I suggest that I am. I am simply using logic as I understand it to be."

So was it the "accurate perception of truth" or the "accurate perception of the law" that was moving to and fro over the face of the earth to form it in the beginning?

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"Androb31 states a few "facts" about the "Holy Spirit", which the Bible also calls the spirit of truth. I suggest that "accurate perception of truth" would be an accurate replacement wherever "Holy Spirit" is discussed. Also, we need to bear in mind that Greek is like French in that it requires a "gender", which is translated as "he" here, but in English I suggest should be more correctly translated as "it", unless one wants to see the "naked Greek" thought process."

So you're a Greek scholar? Credentials? According to the manner of Fredfranzodek? Ok then, let's not look at where gender is used. What about I and me. Yes, I realize that attributes are personified in the bible (not that I would refer to the Holy Spirit as a quality or an attribute) but I seem to recall that in the case of let's say wisdom, is it not a person according to the WT? Namely Jesus, although in the femenine gender?

Acts 13:1, 2: (NWT)

Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Bar´na·bas as well as Sym´e·on who was called Ni´ger, and Lucius of Cy·re´ne, and Man´a·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar´na·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.”

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"I suggest that "accurate perception of truth" would be an accurate replacement wherever "Holy Spirit" is discussed"

Sounds like WT logic. Changing word meanings to back up biased beliefs which don't exist in scripture (cult lingo). Where is the term "accurate perception of truth" in the scriptures in reference to the meaning of Holy Spirit.

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"According to my understanding, the Bible teaches that we have Jehovah (Supreme, Almighty God, person, Source of truth), Jesus Christ (Vice-Supreme, Mighty God, person, Word of truth), and holy spirit (impersonal force, Spirit of truth)."

Here's a few facts regarding the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides, he speaks and he hears (Jn. 16:13). The Holy Spirit intercedes (Rom. 8:26). The Holy Spirit forbids certain actions (Acts 16:6,7). The Holy Spirit sends into service (Acts 13:4). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Eph. 4:30). The Holy Spirit may be blasphemed (Mt. 12:31). He can be lied to (Acts 5:3). The Holy Spirit can be insulted or outraged (Heb. 10:29). And the Holy Spirit can be resisted (Acts 7:51). These are all traits of a person.

Also....

Acts 13:1, 2: (KJV)

"In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.' "
(NWT)
Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Bar´na·bas as well as Sym´e·on who was called Ni´ger, and Lucius of Cy·re´ne, and Man´a·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar´na·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.”

Here we see the personal pronoun I. So this again shows that the Holy Spirit is not an active force, but instead a person

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"So you admit that you do have a primary (true) and a secondary (true) God, right?"

"Yes, androb31, that appears to be a fair characterisation of what I'm saying here."

Two true Gods.....Very interesting...I appreciate your honesty and straight forward answer.

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

"Jesus' role as secondary god is true, based on the established holy scriptures, and even pronouncements by the only true God himself."

I understand Isaiah 43:10's phrase "there was no God formed" to mean "there was no Source of truth formed". Jehovah is the "Source of truth". Jesus is the "Word of truth". It's that simple. The two (Jehovah and Jesus) are that distinct.

So you admit that you do have a primary (true) and a secondary (true) God, right?

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

androb31

Spike,

"Jesus' role as secondary god is true, based on the established holy scriptures, and even pronouncements by the only true God himself."

So according to this, one of 2 things is true. Either Jesus is "true God" and one with the Father or you and JW's in general are polytheistic.

As in:

Isaiah 43:10

“YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may

know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed,

and after me there continued to be none.

Which is it?

55

Creator or Evolution? Confused...

by Newborn in

jw
friends

i don't feel i have to know the truth about how life started or where we're coming from etc, but can't help thinking abt it anyway now and then.

guess it's only natural.. right now i feel really clueless and that i have too little knowledge abt the darwin, big bang theory.... (i was always taught by the dubs that darwin questioned his own theory...but was it really so?)..

i have a close friend who's sure of the evolution but can really the complex and wonderful life and nature come abt by chance (even though he says it's not chance...).

androb31

My advice would be to ask God to reveal himself to you. I know we were cautioned against it as JW's but the bible encourages it.

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

As far as evolution is concerned, I don't know that it necessarily trys to discredit creation. I guess in some circles it can be used that way. Maybe it did or maybe it did not play a part in how we got to this point. But nothing can take away a personal revelation.