Posts by donuthole

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

I realize it would be painful for you to think about all these needless deaths being ordered/expected by the WTB&TS Corporation Bylaws.

Rabbit I believe you made really sound points that cuts through all the legal wrangling to get to the heart of the matter. This copyrighted manual contains directives and policies from abusive judicial Committees to medical decisions involving blood to child molestation to suicide that will damage, harm, abuse and yes, even kill people. There is a reason that the Watchtower wanted to keep the contents of this book secret from millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who will suffer from the information it contains. Equally, there will be some who will excercise civil disobedience and ignore copyright laws to see that this information is publicly available.

I say this to former elders and especially current elders. I think for some of you, books like this were/are welcomed. Because so long as you were being told what to do you didn't have to exercise your own conscience. You may have seen first hand the damage and pain you caused others but at the end of the day you could take solace in the fact that you were just doing what you were told. You laid down and thought, Mother knows best; yet even then you still had trouble sleeping. Know this, there will be a day of accounting and on that day when the tears and blood of those you harmed are brought before you, you will not be able to point to a KS book and say I was just following orders. That simply will not cut it.

21

Copyright, piracy, plagarism, "Fair use": What are they?

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

to be really legal and picky about it if you were to quote me further down in the thread it would be legal to say something like.

it still belongs to them.

and there is no way they would give that kind of permission.

donuthole

And really is there a need for JWs to have this book. It's boring like all their other books. The only thing really different is what they get to write in the columns

Is there value for one of Jehovah's Witnesses facing a Judicial Committee, to have access to the policies and procedures outlined in the Elder's book that will seriously impact their life, including those procedures that elders are specifically instructed not to inform them of?

Is there value for a country like Bulgaria having clear examples of written policies showing the Watchtower's duplicity and deceit when it comes to dealing with JW's who choose to have a blood transfusion?

Is there value for attorneys involved in child molestation cases being able to use the elder's book to prove the Watchtower's claims of clergy confidentially when dealing abusers invalid?

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

But, sadly, the WT could do so (and be following its own rules) if it disfellowshipped him first.

I thought of this but didn't want to give them any ideas ...

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

As a p.s. to my last post -

If it is in indeed an active JW elder who copied and leaked this material the WT would be forbidden from taking the individual to court anyway under the rules against such activity in the new elder's book.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

The recent cases where big lawsuits have been filed for copyright infringement such as by the RIAA all have to deal with copying and distribution not downloading or possessing. Where things get fuzzy is if you use a file-sharing program to download a copyrighted file you may in the process be distributing the file depending on what P2P program you are using and how it is set up. But, even this isn't cut and dry because due to the nature of torrent you may only be sharing a fraction of copyrighted work and not the whole thing. (This argument is yet untested in court.) Again this assumes that the copyright holder, the Watchtower, would even pursue the matter in court. Firing off cease-and-desist form letters is one thing, bringing litigation against individual file sharers is another animal. I would have to ask if general public exposure over their secret elders manual is worth it.

If individuals wish to further educate themselves over all the ins and outs of copyright issues in the digital age a good resource is the Electronic Frontier Foundation

94

Watchtower Sends Legal Notice To Website Regarding Coyright Infringement

by Bangalore in

the watchtower has sent a legal notice to the owners of the eds blog for posting copyrighted material without permission.

here is the link to the trancript.

the site owners response is also there.. .

donuthole

Sending a "cease and desist" notice is of little effort. It is really an hour of legal time and is very effective. You don't even need a legit claim, most web hosts and ISP will readily comply. Bringing a full-on lawsuit take time and money. They must weigh a variety of factors and decide if it is worth it.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

The laws are continually changing in this digital age but downloading and possessing a copyrighted work is not a illegal. Distribution is illegal. However the reason the RIAA is able to file such a large suit on music file sharers is because they can claim a financial loss because the works that are being downloaded are also sold. If the Watchtower decided to be litigious they would have a difficult time proving up financial losses for an internal manual that is freely distributed to elders within their religion. Further they would have to decide if bringing a lawsuit to the public is worth the attention it would bring to a document that they very much want to keep away from public (legal) scrutiny.

Make no mistake about it, despite eggnogs claims, the elder's manual is very much a secret document. Letters have already leaked where the elders received official directives that no one but elders are permitted to look at it. It must be kept out of site, even from family. Further having the book spiral bound by a place like Kinko's or a sister in the congregation is expressly forbidden. The only exception is that a baptized brother may bind but only under the direct supervision of an elder. Think about it. If the book was not intended to be secret why such strict directives?

In the meantime, those that have chosen to distribute this file are taking an understood risk and are engaging in civil disobedience for what they believe to be the greater good. (That is if they even are in a country where these laws are applicable.) There is a public value in having this book widely released. Here are just a few reasons:

1.) Their secret directives on how to handle someone who has a blood transfusion is in violation to the agreement they made with the Bulgarian government.

2.) Some of their secret instructions on how to handle judicial meetings betray any claims to clergy confidentially the Watchtower has used when shielding such meetings from scrutiny during child abuse lawsuits.

3.) When a Witness undergoes a judicial meeting they are not fully informed of their rights. The release of the manual provides information for those who are being tried in such a manner so that they are better prepared.

That being said this website is exercising their due diligence by removing links to the material ensuring that this forum resource can remain available for those who would benefit from it. Even then removing links right now won't matter too much in the long run. The cat is already out of the bag. WikiLeaks currently has their hands full with the release of the Iraq war documents but eventually the book will end up on their servers for any who have a continued interest in it. Even though they have nothing to do with this religion they fully understand that there is an important public interest in having the material available.

66

Not surprisingly, the rumor mill has started...

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

my wife and i have not even been df'd for a week and an old friend on fb (an inactive jw who has active jw friends who used to be friends of mine) says there's a rumor going around that i'm gay.

wow.

really jws?

donuthole

Typical. Like all "apostates" I have started my own religion. I am also rumored to be crazy and have been making prank phone calls on JW's. One the of the reasons I sent a letter to my congregation prior to being disfellowshipped was to let them know exactly what I was being disfellowshipped was to avoid being called an adulterer or a fornicator. It retrospect, given their opinion of "apostates", adulterer might have been the better label.

22

Do you drink water from the tap or what?

by asilentone in

jw
friends

donuthole

It may be a bit "tin-foil-hat" for some but I avoid tap water when possible BECAUSE OF flouride. It is interesting that many countries have banned flouride in water because of health and other concerns. Beyond that there are other concerns with tap water such as in 2008 when National news agencies reported where traces of pharmaceuticals were discovered in tap water.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

donuthole

The law regarding linking to material is unclear at the moment as it hasn't been tried in court

Unfortunately linking to infringing content has been tried and the US courts have sided with the copyright owners. Per the article I quoted above the courts have forced websites to remove links to internal manuals that the mormon church claims as copyright protected. Even Google will remove search links to material when there is a valid copyright claim. As it currently stands there is a legal precedent that even linking to copyright materials is illegal.

I don't think the issue will go away any time soon in this digital age. With secret books like the Elder's manual it is in the public interest that this information be made available and not hidden behind overextended and abused copyright laws. I'm interested to see if the idea of fair use could be tested to apply such circumstances. Until then it will fall upon the civil disobedience of sites like Wikileaks to make available this information for the benefit of others.