I think it would be a riot if they had a JW on that "Hoarders" television program and you go into their house and it is wall to wall back-issues with little narrow walking paths running to the rooms.
donuthole
JoinedPosts by donuthole
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69
The Watchtower is now the world's largest magazine!
by life is to short innewsmaxs magazine just published an article that the watchtower is the most read magazine out there it evens surpasses time.. i have never heard of newmaxs but i just was emailed this and thought you might find it interesting.
i am sorry i do not know how to give the link so i am cutting and pasting.
if someone can do the link it would be great.
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The CONSCIOUS CLASS what does it mean to you, and do you consider yourself one of them?
by cattails inthere's a few posts where the term "conscious class" has been in just recently.. i'm wondering if it means the same to most jws and exjws who post here.. what does the "conscious class" mean to you?.
ok, no funny business about 'being conscious' as in awake and fully cafeinated.. if you could answer the two questions it may help some here to understand what.
this term is a lot better.
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donuthole
I guess the designation could be quite broad and ecompass a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses beyond what some might see as closet apostates. There may some that don't believe in general but simply go through the motions for the sake of family. There may be some in authority that don't agree with all of the organizational practices but accept the teachings. Maybe some elderly ones don't fully accept some of the newer teachings or are aware of the lack of love but still believe in the Organization.
Personally I don't think such a stand is maintanable without sacrificing personal integrity along the way. For instance if I didn't believe in 1914 could I in good conscience teach such from the platform or at the door? Yet to stay in good standing in the congregation it is impossible to "opt out". The Organization is structured in such a way that it is absolutely required that you support all the practices and all of the teachings with little wiggle room so long as you maintain close contact with the congregation. Staying practically requires one to lie and lead a double-life. I don't see how such a stand could work for individuals who value honesty and the truth.
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Rutherford admits why he stole control of WTB&TS
by Mythbuster ini've been reading the trial transcript and i found this little nugget (page 1028).
this comes while the prosecution is questioning rutherford:.
q. that being your view of it - that a man who was consecrated must not engage in war, then, that is your idea, that you are opposed to all war?.
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donuthole
Interesting find. This squares with another things such as how Rutheford began to rebrand the Organization with military designations. For instance congregations became "companies" (as in military units).
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What do you think will be WT doctrine in 10 or 20 years time?
by roguepixel inthe world/science/technology and society (not the society) are changing so rapidly.
what does everybody think will be wt$ doctrine and belief in 10 or 20 years time?
i'm thinking mainly about advances in medicine and cloning, which were always looked upon as being a cut-off point.
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donuthole
Well I think there will be a handful of upgrades in terminology used by Witnesses. That is the most common form of change.
I anticipate that the Governing Body will exclusively assume the role of the Faithful & Discreet Slave class, the other anointed will be relugated to the role of the domestics, and other sheep will be considered to be the belongings. The framework for this already being put in place. There may be other auxillary prophetic reinterpration that will serve to elevate the Governing Body over the rest of the rank and file and anointed.
I think the blood doctrine will be further refined to be completely a conscience matter. Such a change will be happen over time. It will be subtle. It may happen sooner depending on outside legal or governmental pressure.
In my opinion the organization will decline unless they can sell a tangible date for the end that will foster growth. I do feel that as 1975 falls into the dustbin of history that a new date will be easier to promote. 2034 might be shopped as that year draws closer. Again the seed of this idea has already been put out there. The problem is that when the date passes they will go into a sharper decline. Another option, though out of character, would be to rebrand the religion to become, less apocalyptic and antagonistic, and more social and promote character and family values. This is a possiblity but not likely.
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Got a visit from door-to-door JW's!
by donuthole intoday while i was home for a quick lunch break i got a knock at the door.
i opened the door and was surprised to see two elderly jehovah's witnesses women.
i haven't been called on since i've been out for four years, so this was a bit of surprise.
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donuthole
so is that why we both always had not at home return visits when we worked together? LOL
My problem was that I never had any return visits. I only wrote down the ones that actually showed genuine interest versus keeping tabs on everyone that reluctantly took a tract from me out of pity or to shoo me away. Then I'd get in these car groups that were "just doing calls." and they would be digging through their call books bursting at the seams with index cards, loose leaf notebook paper and Hardee's napkins. ("Hello, I'm so-and-so, I don't know if you remember that I came by here ... oh, maybe, four years ago, and I left you that red book ...") Well in those groups it was either make up RV's or show my hand as a the slacker of the car group and slink away in Theocratic shame. :-)
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Jesus Is Not the Atonement.
by whereami inthe new testament is full of applications of passover imagery to the execution of jesus.
however, passover had nothing to do with atonement for sins.
in this video, we'll see how jesus' death failed to fulfill the actual jewish ritual for atonement on the day of atonement (yom kippur)--this despite all the claims that jesus perfectly fulfilled the law.. what say some of our in house theologians?.
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donuthole
Jesus is the embodiment of the Law and the Prophets.
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When will the crashing and burning of this organization begin?
by easyreader1970 inas i see it, there are three looming threats that all have the potential - individually or combined - to bring the wbts to its knees, at least in the united states, anyway.. 1. youth retention.
the young people aren't buying it.
the watchtower will argue that faithless young people are giving in to demonic persuasion and leaving the truth.
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donuthole
I agree that youth retention is a serious problem. The thing to keep in mind about increases is that the statistics are for "publishers". It is almost a given that child born to Witness parents will at some point become a publisher. However that doesn't mean that they will go on to get baptised and if they do avoid being df'd or falling away during their late teens, early adulthood.
Right before I left I noticed the upcoming generation of kids weren't very zealous. Yeah they were going through the motions but didn't seem to have much ambition to "reach out". This ties into second point that the Organization is hurting for men to take the lead. They are losing the elders/servants they do have left and right and there just aren't very many up and comers to take their place.
Again, retention is a big problem in the organization. As the elders become stretched thin, their Organizational load increases, and usually one of the first things to go is actually looking out for the flock. It becomes easy for folks to slip out the back door due to depression, fatigue, and problems in the congregation.
I don't know about the science thing. I do know a cluster of individuals that left over the science issues. I frequently visit Digg.com (or at least did prior to their most recent change) and have observed that their is a strong lean toward atheism among young people. I don't know how much this trend has infiltrated the congregation. I do know that while you may scare grandma away from the Internet you aren't going to keep junior off and this opens them up to all sorts of ideas and vices that may lead them away from the Organization ...
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Could They Dump The Assemblies?
by metatron inmy theory continues to be that the governing body will be forced to break down the organization piece by piece.. so, i wonder: could they dump the assemblies?.
it is clear - that they are having some problems in this area.
they are selling off assembly halls in some countries, they have moved some district assemblies to assembly halls (to save money on rent) and the pleas for donations from the platform have not let up.. while zombie witlesses may drag themselves to meetings and out in service (with whatever literature/magazines the watchtower manages to afford) indefinitely, i watch this area with interest.
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donuthole
I don't see assemblies going because of the money aspect --
I don't know how it is currently but there was never a danger of an assembly hall not paying the bills. On the rare occasion that they didn't receive enough contributions to meet "expenses" they sent a letter to the congregations of the circuit instructing them to send a check for what was lacking. I even know of one occasion when the letter went around twice. (This is in the 1980's.)
The Watchtower regularly benefits from the assembly arrangement because any excess money they have is voted by the elders of the circuit as a contribution to the World Wide Work.
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Demons and the WTS
by brotherdan ini remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.
some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".
some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.
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donuthole
My experience with tongues generally can be placed in three categories --
- There are tongues that are manifested by means of the Holy Spirit
- There are tongues that are manifested by means of unclean spirits
- There are tongues that are manifested by a person's flesh
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Demons and the WTS
by brotherdan ini remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.
some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".
some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.
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donuthole
DH, can you elaborate on your encounters?
Cheezits. I'm sorry I'm not able to. For one it involves individuals and I need to respect their privacy. Secondly I have noticed a tendency that some look to these stories for the wrong reasons. Some see it as entertainment. (I mean really how many excorcist type movies have bee out in recent years; not to mention all the "paranormal" shoes on cable.) Some see as a way to bolster faith, which is misplaced, believe in the Holy Spirit not evil Spirits. (like in JW land the Holy Spirit is powerless unless it comes to directing people out in service to make that one last call whereas the unclean spirits can do all sorts of crazy stuff.) I'm not saying that is your motive but those are the reasons I will not share details on forums. That being said, generically my experiences are the same as what you can read about in the Bible. The unclean spirits act in the same way and they respond to the same way to the authority of the Word of God (by that I mean Jesus and not the Bible.)