Posts by cattails

15

RE: can elders encourage DF'd persons...

by elderelite in

***13. in recent times there have been cases in which an elder happened to meet a disfellowshipped person.

where appropriate, the shepherd briefly outlined the steps to be taken for reinstatement.

some persons like this repented and were reinstated.

cattails

Wow! What about Jesus teaching about leaving the 99 sheep to go looking for the lost one.

It's all a matter of control, the directives to elders are probably due to the legal department's suggestions to the GB.

33

IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM - Ray Franz

by compound complex in

dear friends, .

some have expressed interest in the above title and their wish to have it for themselves.

the chapter of particular importance to many of us is "legalism - opponent of christian freedom.

I had ordered both books from Amazon at the same time I ordered some other books, I was living at home and was very much afraid anyone in my family would find out I was ordering "apostate" literature.

When the box came in I took out some of the not so interesting educational titles, left Ray Franz's books inside the box though, then put them all back in the box in plain view, and went to my room coming right out with the empty box. Then went to "organize", which turned into several hours of reading CoC.

CoC is a pretty thick book, several hundred pages thick, so I put on a pretty book-sock to disguise it, and read it in plain sight of everyone, avoiding pages with large titles or photos that prying eyes might spot. I had to read some parts of it twice, if I remember because I really wanted to understand what I was reading and what it meant for my faith, rebellious as I was at the time I read it.

Once I finished CoC I just couldn't wait to start into ISoCF. I liked CoC, it helped open my eyes to a lot of facts about the WTS, but "Christian Freedom" gave me confidence and faith. It put down falsehoods but helped me become more of a Christian minded person. But its size proved to be a challenge.

ISoCF is 700 plus pages, how was I going to leave this huge book around, it's almost twice as thick as CoC. Since I couldn't wait to read it and I'd gone for the paperback issue I decided to make a sacrifice.

I ripped the pages, carefully by hand, from its gummy backing, the smell of the new book and the fear I may mess up and rip a page down the middle was just insane. But I managed to get about half the book un-glued into single sheets, I remembered being told by Bethelites that they did this unbinding with WT Yearbooks when the daily text was the last part of the yearbooks, they'd rip the pages and carry the sheet in their pocket through the day. Well, I carried a chapter at a time inside one of the educational books of about the same length and width. I'd take out a chapter at a time making sure to put the pages back by number in the right order with the rest of it that I kept in one of my dresser drawers under some other "stuff".

I'd bring the book with ISoCF everywhere even in my bag to the KH! I even read from it during the meeting when I unfortunately came down with a migraine and "had" to sit in the side school.

I remember well, that the chapter on the use of Jehovah's name by Jesus and first Century Christians un-nerved me a lot. But given some time to think about it and pondering on the phrase like "in the name of the law" or "in the name of the Queen/King" means not by the name itself but by its power, I came to appreciate more and more that in the Bible the name carried not only the meaning of the name but the meaning behind the name, the power and authority it represented. So I was ok with angels appearing to humans and then people saying Jehovah spoke to them, because they came "in the name of God".

Definitely ISoCF was a very faith strengthening book, it tore down false human reasonings and build up my faith in the real meaning of being a disciple of Christ.

4

"Poissonous falsehoods" according to 3rd Witness

by cattails in

holly berry and heather berry.

v.. watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc.,.

wilton congregation of jehovah's witnesses,.

cattails

It 3rd Witness is a WTS Apologist and reads JWD/JWN, isn't that not following WT directives about apostate sites?

Notice the quote from the 3rd Witness website on child abuse and the WT, where he quotes a poster from JWD, Gerard, saying something about one of the sexual abuse cases.

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Deal.html

Gerard, a poster at the site known as JWD, who claims to be a friend and supporter of attorney Kimberlee Norris of Love and Norris, reports that she said she would never settle these cases. Here are his exact words: "... I am extremely disapointed on Kimberly Norris, their attorney. I asked her a couple of years ago in this list and she said she would never settle. I guess everyone has a price...lawyers standing on the sidelines are not an exception. A lawyer needs more abuses in the future to keep settling them out of court. Why kill the hen that lays gold eggs?" Later he reiterated, "For the record: Kim told me she would not settle, so that was disapointing and caused me anger as I felt she lied."

Assuming that he is not lying (why would he since he is a supporter of Norris against the Watchtower Society) and assuming the cases were settled out of court, then we have to wonder why did she settle out of court when she claimed she never would? Indeed why did all 10 persons involved in the 6 cases choose to settle with a confidentiality agreement or gag order as some call it?

Usually an ambulance chaser, like Kim Norris, pursues these cases with no money being fronted by the plaintiffs, meaning they volunteer their time, but collect 40% of the resulting judgment or settlement. If they discover their case is weak, they can put a lot of pressure on the plaintiffs to settle, otherwise the plaintiffs would have to pay out of their own pockets to continue pursuing the case. Most cannot afford to do so, so they must accept the advice of their attorney. Hence you have 10 out of 10 settling their cases and not one holding out to prove their case. It is also most revealing that shortly thereafter, three other cases involving six other alleged victims in Texas, Oregon, and San Diego were likewise settled with the same 'gag order' agreement.

You may have heard that the settlements involved MILLIONS of dollars. Those who make such claims really have no idea of the amount. They are merely guessing and it is a baseless guess. Innocent defendants oftentimes offer settlements to end cases and if we look at history of the Watchtower Society we will see that they almost always do the same. This is no indication of guilt on the part of the defendant.

21

How would the diehard witnesses view this ?

by man in black in

jw
friends

this video was sent to me earlier today, and it really hit a nerve with me,,,,, i just couldn't stop applying it to the witness belief of df and da.. i've known quite a few witness parents over the years who just left their kids "on the roadside" because they no longer.

wanted to be a part of this religion.. why is it that genuine human reaction/emotion is dropped when children no longer want to be a jw ?.

this father seems to be quite a guy, notice how he yells at the security/medical person near the end no doubt to leave his son alone !.

cattails

This video is now making the rounds in JW circles on Facebook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_566Z1WzTLs

3

Jehovahs Witness Music - on Amazon.com

by cattails in

have you ever heard of jehovahs witness music - on amazon.com ?.

quite a funky music beat behind the reading of scripture.

click on.

cattails

If you listened to some of the sample Mp3's, did you like the hip-hop beat behind the reading of the King James version?

It is so totally out there!

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

cattails

I've been trying to look online for any connections between "Al Taylor" and 3rd Witness.

Have any JWD/JWN posters ever run into 3rd Witness, or Al Taylor, online in one of the forums?

I'm beginning to think that the WTS actually backs 3rd Witness' activities as an apologist.

This could blow up in their faces if it can be proven to be true. It's almost like a "spy-counter-spy" movie of sorts.

4

"Poissonous falsehoods" according to 3rd Witness

by cattails in

holly berry and heather berry.

v.. watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc.,.

wilton congregation of jehovah's witnesses,.

cattails

HOLLY BERRY and HEATHER BERRY

v.

WATCHTOWER BIBLE and TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.,
WILTON CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES,
and PAUL BERRY

I happened to visit the Wilton, New Hampshire, Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses.

To my surprise the place of the famous case of Sara Poisson against her husband Paul Berry for sexual abuse of her girls.

There are several JWs I met who would swear that he was framed and he was innocent of the charges.

You can read about the trial at Silent Lambs:

http://www.silentlambs.org/education/jwjustice.cfm

3rd Witness has, wouldn't you know it, come up with a page saying it was all "Poissonous" lies (note the misspelling of 3rd Witness to poke fun at the mom).

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Poissonous.html

Had you heard of this case and if you were close or met the family involved back then did you notice anything amiss going on?

Previous JWD thread from nine years ago that talks about the case:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/9675/1/News-Story-2

35

Do Elders and Bethelites really follow this site?

by jamesmahon in

just a question really and whilst i would not put it past them i sort of feel it is too 'conspiracy theory' for me.

are elders and bethelites officially sanctioned to lurk (or engage) in this or other sites to try to weedle out apostates?

does anyone have any direct experience of it happening?.

cattails

The only people immune to the truth are those who have no regard for it.

That's right Essan, the ones they appoint the dirty task are those in the legal Dept. probably WT lawyers.

Those who follow in the steps of Covington and Rutherford.

To people like that the "Truth" is whatever is said by those who win the argument.

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

cattails

Here's an interesting conversation about Al Taylor and 3rd Witness:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091124124205AAh5aAB

The question posed was:

Is Al Taylor, the Watchtower 3rd Witness, employed by Jehovah's Witnesses?

Since it has come out that the identity of the Third Witness, Jehovah Witness apologist, is Al Taylor of England, does anyone know if he is actually getting pated by the Watchtower to publish propaganda for the Watchtower? I can imagine it takes quite a bit of money to maintain his web sites and print hard copies of his propaganda. Is he getting payed by the Watchtower? Does he count the time he invests in his elaborate defenses of the Watchtower's association with the Wild Beast of Revelation?

I also noticed that our bar-enosh is a regular poster on the Third Witness websites. Could Bar-Enosh be none other than Al Taylor, the secret Third Witness of Revelation?

Additional Details

It's not an accusation it's a question. Why so many JWs up in arms about it? They obviously look upon this Third Witness as a sort of prophet. They sure do defend him as if he were one of the Governing body!

Some of the answers at yahoo to the above question and asker are just plain mean-spirited and very abusive of character, are these people Christians responding? Wow!

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

cattails

The jehovahsjudgment_co_uk website smells like something Momma WT Society made to look like someone not connected with the official website may have put together. Something smells fishy and awful close to the Brooklyn bridge.

1. Active witnesses aren't supposed to get involved in making webpages devoted to apologetics. They are to point people to the Watchtower_org website.

2. The way the Chapters synopsis appears on the first page is very reminiscent of the treatment of articles in the official website, i.e. a professionally made graphic with a little text and bolded title.

3. In the Spanish XJW forum there was talk awhile back that the Watchtower Society had invited some brothers with Web development skills to write pages, one brother was from Mexico if I recall.

4. The arguments made in the jj-co-uk website are quite similar to the official responses given to people who received letters back from Momma WT HQ about the NGO "affair".

If the WT wanted they would contact the person and discuss why he's not following the official recommendation about personal witnessing pages. The persons name is given in the WHOIS lookup...

Here's the WHOIS info for the domain (but note you don't have to be in the UK to host a webpage in the UK, so Al Taylor could be anywhere, even at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill for all we know):

Domain name: jehovahsjudgment.co.uk Registrant: Al Taylor Registrant type: UK Individual Registrant's address: The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their address omitted from the WHOIS service. Registrar: Webfusion Ltd t/a 123-Reg.co.uk [Tag = 123-REG] URL: http://www.123-reg.co.uk Relevant dates: Registered on: 29-Oct-2008 Renewal date: 29-Oct-2010 Last updated: 29-Oct-2008 Registration status: Registered until renewal date. Name servers: ns1.openhosts.com ns2.openhosts.com WHOIS lookup made at 03:31:33 15-Aug-2010