Definitely the funniest (and saddest post) I've read. How many times I've heard something in a meeting or at a convention and just ...... not thought at all. Now that I think for myself I'm embarrassed to have ever been apart of subjugating others thinking or conscience. Thanks for the humour it helps. Allelsefails (like when all else fails try something that makes sense?)
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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New Guidelines for this Forum - Please take notes
by BonaFide inwe are happy to inform you of some rule changes on this forum.
we do not want to give the impression they are rules, so we will use the term guidelines.
at present, some are using this forum to express their own opinion.
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My JW Daughter sends a Letter to us Explaining her Shunning of Me
by flipper inmy wife and i sent my 22 yr.old pioneer witness daughter and her husband a anniversary card and $ 40.00 and flowers the end of april.
my daughter wrote mrs. flipper and me each our own individual letters thanking us initially for the gifts - and then went into detail as to why she has not spoken to me for over a year and shunned me.. keep in mind as i paraphrase some of the highlights to these letters that the only negative thing i have said about the organization to my daughter in 3 years was to show her the ap news release about the child abuse settlements by the wt society .
i'll quote parts of the letter to mrs. flipper first :.
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allelsefails
Thanks for your post. Truly I feel for your struggle and I hope for the best in freeing your daughter's love. I do hate the idea that leaving the WTS is leaving Jehovah or loyalty to Jehovah means loyalty to WTS. This is a blatant and pervasive form of mind control. However it sounds like your daughter has enough of a brain to think for herself once she gets a little freedom. My prayers are with you. (for what that is worth)
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The "swagger" of the Organization is gone - or is it my imagination?
by BonaFide ini am in my early forties.
grew up in the truth.
i remember talks at the assemblies by the governing body in the 80's.
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allelsefails
Definitely true! Even the GB is backing off a little bit. More articles that allow for more personal choice. A few examples: There are no articles about private matters between married couples for many years. More statements like "no need to be dogmatic" LOL. They are trying to hold onto their power without pushing everyone away. It is a funny balancing act to watch. If you look at most of the really crazy and controversial quotes they are over 10 yrs old, but the bOrg has not actually changed those teachings - they just don't repeat them. According R.Franz this is what they do to teachings on their way out ..... we'll see. I would love to hear "we don't know" from the GB. There are so many good R&F JWs that could be helped if "control" part of JWs was relaxed. Thanks for your posts. Very thought-provoking. Wait isn't thinking apostate?
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The Virgin Mary Stone
by jimlandress inthe virgin mary stone .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbqbgnfwaby.
history.
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allelsefails
Reminds me of how JW look at their organization. If you want to see something beautiful you will, but only if you look thru the filters they put on it for you. if you look at it for yourself you'll see....nothing but a rock. Nice rock though.
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New member - My story
by allelsefails ini've been reading for a little while, but really "studying" for a couple of years.
figure i could share my story and listen to what you guys have to say.
i was "born" into jws in 1976. my mother was baptized in 1975.. ouch.
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allelsefails
Thanks for the replies. I don't feel as alone now! Too many good posts to respond individually, but know you've all helped me in my process already. Someone asked about my wife. She does still go to meetings - she likes rigid rules even though she believes more like me than the JWs. She is open minded and will listen to me, but thinks I'm over analyzing things. She has put a lot of pressure on me because I "broke my promise" to her that we would worship together as witnesses. I love her, but being pressured is not good for me right now, you know?
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New member - My story
by allelsefails ini've been reading for a little while, but really "studying" for a couple of years.
figure i could share my story and listen to what you guys have to say.
i was "born" into jws in 1976. my mother was baptized in 1975.. ouch.
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allelsefails
A few stories ... yeah. My whole life all I've wanted is peace. Now I have my mother telling me I have to hold on to "Jehovah's Organization" so I can see my brother again. Think how disappointed he would be if I wasn't there. Guilt on top of fear on top of guilt. I'm tired. Thanks for the welcome hope to more when I wake up (literally - I think I'm awake figuratively already).
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New member - My story
by allelsefails ini've been reading for a little while, but really "studying" for a couple of years.
figure i could share my story and listen to what you guys have to say.
i was "born" into jws in 1976. my mother was baptized in 1975.. ouch.
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allelsefails
Yes an "Older man" at 24. Funny now right? Inactive but still attending meetings until a few weeks ago. My wife told me I was a distraction to her. I was just going to support her anyway. Pretty lonely right now.....most of you know how it is straddling the fence. My nuts hurt. (sorry for the crude imagery)
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New member - My story
by allelsefails ini've been reading for a little while, but really "studying" for a couple of years.
figure i could share my story and listen to what you guys have to say.
i was "born" into jws in 1976. my mother was baptized in 1975.. ouch.
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allelsefails
I've been reading for a little while, but really "studying" for a couple of years. Figure I could share my story and listen to what you guys have to say.
I was "born" into JWs in 1976. My mother was baptized in 1975.. ouch. She is a wonderful, loving woman ..... but didn't finish High school and has been mistreated by her mother and father as well as my own (worldly) father making her really naive and open to manipulation. Growing up with a worldly father made life interesting. I always had 2 lives in front of me.......but I digress. I was always taught the end was any day now. I had no need of education or anything "worldly". When I was 13 my older brother who was 20yrs old was killed in a car crash. (He refused a blood transfusion, but that is another story.) My life fell apart, but it was all about seeing him in the new system. My mom divorced my dad and married another worldly man. She was disfellowshipped for having 2 husbands. (Another long story - full of BS). I lived on the edge as a teenager, but knew this was the "truth". At 20 I married a 33 year old woman with 3 children. It sounds crazy, but I'm crazy about her still. She's my best friend and confidant with her own weird ideas. (Another long story) I was MS after marriage and then an elder 4 years later. I served as an elder for 6 years secretary and then school overseer.
I had some personal issues with an elder who hit on my wife and offered to run away with her when she left me. This same elder had written pornographic e-mails to a married sister a year before and not been removed (dispite my fervent recommendations). This didn't really affect my spirituaility.
I finally started studying the "bible". When I did I realized first the lie about 607 BCE then 1914 then 1919 selection of FDS, 144,000, great crowd, etc..... Now I don't believe any religion has absolute truth, and I'm offended by the "faithful slave" concept. I'm not sure I even believe in the New Tesatament at all. But I do still believe in God as revealed to Moses. Crazy right?
Now I'm trying to find a new job. Trying to save my marriage. and I'm awake at 4am. My life is a jumble of crazy emotions.
Thanks for reading this.
Allelsefails
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The cost of going undercover to help family and friends - Is it worth it?
by BonaFide inso all of you that are trying to help your family and friends as a disassociated person, or disfellowshipped, or sort-of-shunned.. what do you think about getting reinstated or reactivated to help them get out?.
the time invested would be two meetings a week, about 6 hours total including driving.
for those on the outside, you would have to get reinstated, so you would need 2-3 months of going to meetings making sure the elders see you and know your intention.. add field service in there.
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allelsefails
reniaa - it is not honest to go to a door and tell people that you are not there to change their religion... that's exactly what JWs want to do. I don't know how "deceitful" JWs have to be to help people see the truth, but i'd like to give an example. My JW wife and I were having a discusion about salvation. I told her JWs teach that only JWs will be saved at Armageddon. She said she never was taught that and doesn't beieve it. She told me she never saw that in the "Live Forever Book". Of course it is on page 255! At the very end it says this: "You must be part of Jehovah’s organization, doing God’s will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life." She is very open minded, but can't see the dishonesty in such teaching. Not to mention the actual lies that have been told: Greek word for temple (Naos vs. hieron), UN NGO, and misquoting themselves. Ask to see a copy of WT charter without (...)(skipped words) or [through](added word)and you'll see they worship Jesus, but disfellowship people for worshipping Jesus. My studies have led me to the one truth JWs uncovered: Religion is a Snare and a Racket. All of them. Faith in God does not require religion. It requires the right heart. Keep asking questions - the TRUTH will set you free.
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The structure of the Organization keeps people in
by BonaFide inwhen i was in bethel, i noticed this, and of course more now.. there are those big buildings in brooklyn, the huge watchtower sign, that big clock facing manhattan.
everyone in bethel has those haircuts, clothes are pressed.
everyone is at morning worship.
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allelsefails
I agree with the concept you presented here. It works for most organizations. Catholics stay Catholics because they never question it. People in this country think they live in a Democracy because there are voting booths. Every one has a "hook". The witnesses are very persuasive with their kind and loving attitude ... if you fit in properly. And using "the truth" to describe your religion is mind control at its best. (I still use the phrase and kick myself every time.)My wife tells me "Brother .... has been faithful since the forties". She knows that gets to me because I love him so much. So I say what about Mother Teresa or Ghandi. Was it there "religion" that made them great or their own personality and love for people? Fear does keep people in once you start to question. I'm still "a member", and I hold back from DA because of my mother and children. It seems better to fade away...... One thing JWs got right: Religion is a Snare and a Racket.