Posts by indireneed

26

I'v got to tell something this!

by voltaire in

jw
friends

i've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.

she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.

i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.

indireneed

This is a tough situation, and one in which I have a few parallels with my life. My wife and I married, and then she became a JW, probably because of many random, very significant reasons.

Anyway, the question is, is it worth giving up your wife for another woman. In reality, the important thing to remember is that every relationship, and I mean every relationship, will have troubles. Big troubles, little troubles, medium troubles. There will always be a catch, as well as good points.

So, it's not an easy decision. I love my wife - I don't love her JW tendencies now, but I love her. Will she change? Maybe, maybe not. Will I change? Yup. Should we break up? Maybe, maybe not.

In truth, you have to look at your life from more than one angle. Right now, it seems foolish to live with your wife while you've got the cutie on your arm. But what about when you find that your lives are completely different - The Latin and US societies are as different as Protestants and JWs. There will be problems. There will be compromises.

Don't give up your wife because you want to screw around. Give up your wife because you have to. Look at what you want, what you have to gain, and what you have to lose.

If it's over, end it. If there is a chance, don't count a bird in the bush as given unless you know everything everthing.

9

be patient: lets hope the world does not end soon

by malian in

jw
friends

like many others, i have not been able to change the views of my dear love, who has been brain-washed by the wts...(sigh).... however, i am waiting for the prophecy of 1914 to fail; the world will live on, and our loved ones will at least have a seed of doubt planted in their mind.

to all: be patient!

i think that it will be a real eye-opener for many.

indireneed

Richard,
I whole hartedly agree with you as far as the incorrect dates changing people's opinion goes.

What I meant to say was that it alone will not destroy people's belief in the Watchtower. I would guess that you had probably already started to doubt that the WT was the 'one and only' channel of God, which made you call into question their new light crap.

I think that missed dates are a great way of shoving the wedge in further. I just don't believe that they do much with people 'on fire' with the truth. Too many avoidance tactics.

I don't mean to say that individuals are enlightened by these things. I meant more the organization as a whole . . . heaven knows they've already failed thousands of times!

15

QUESTION: will the WTS ever fall? if so, how?

by badwillie in

jw
friends

maybe some of you who have been out for many years can answer this.. do you think that the flow of people leaving the borg has been increasing?

and do you think that we will ever live to see their complete downfall?

if you do think this is a likely scenario, how do you see it unfolding?.

indireneed

I don't believe that the Watchtower will ever fold completely. Religions don't really ever die, and if they were to, oft times they are simply resurrected. The JWs are an offshoot of arianism and several other branches, so can one really argue that arianism died?

The difference between something like the collapse of communism and the Watchtower are different cases - communism was imposed in the later years and thus fell spectacularly. Socialism on the other hand is alive and well in Scandinavian countries where they vote for it and thus have the ability to change their minds.

While the JWs do horrible things to those who quit, only the children are forced to attend in reality. We see many children leaving, but many other adults going back in. People like the way they feel as a JW, and more power to them. I like the way I feel in spiritual matters. My only problem is the fact that my wife is a JW (which hurts our marriage) and that they try to impose their will on me through preaching.

Anyway, I don't think they'll ever disappear. It's a choice, and it's a group of people who are willing and able to change their minds without letting on to their population. I figure they'll either mainstream (as they have been doing for years, whether by trying to change the mainstream ideas (i.e. blood is bad, bloodless surgery good) or by simply giving up stupid notions like blood, etc.) or they'll collapse into a format more like the Bible Students. Good or bad? Neither, they just exist. Each person must make his own choice and worship his own god. Whether these gods are made up or not is another story.

3

Any Ideas on how to help those Lost Dubs??

by lydia in

jw
friends

we need to put our heads together here - we need to figure out how to gently help those who come here seeking information to realize what it is the borg is trying to hide from them.... .

lets face it - it takes alot for those who are in or newly associated to get on here and start to look... .

how can we make this an easier thing for them - so that we don't over whelm them??.

indireneed

I think one of the biggest problems is unreliability of information. There are things that are circulated that are just not true, and these really detract from the overall impression a person might take away.

I would suggest a 'facts and myths' page that tries to get to the bottom of this and invites comments. Thus, if a JW read something he or she didn't believe, they could submit proof with regards to that topic. And vice versa.

I have in mind things like masonic involvement, Russell's early years etc. There is a lot of information that is just hearsay and does nothing for the cause except isolate people.

9

be patient: lets hope the world does not end soon

by malian in

jw
friends

like many others, i have not been able to change the views of my dear love, who has been brain-washed by the wts...(sigh).... however, i am waiting for the prophecy of 1914 to fail; the world will live on, and our loved ones will at least have a seed of doubt planted in their mind.

to all: be patient!

i think that it will be a real eye-opener for many.

indireneed

I'm afraid that I'll have to be rathre cynical on this point. The prophecies will never fail, and if they were to fail, the truth would be obscured by new light.

In fact, there have been many, many failures, and nary a victory. But this doesn't matter. When one assumes that they are receiving direct communication from God through a group of people, althought the reception is a little fuzzy, they will not leave unless they suddenly become disillusioned.

The failure of a date won't do it. Neither will protests or big fights. The person has to decide that there is more to life than waiting for the next one. If God made this life as a stepping stone to another one, he's found a pretty darn stupid way to do it. Religion is a snare . . . and JWs are more religion than anything else.

31

What things are pagan in origin?

by roybatty in

jw
friends

i read someone's commment about the pagan origins of pretzels, which i didn't know.

i'd like to share with my kids other items or customs that are also pagan in origin, like wedding rings and the wedding cake.

i want them to see that christmas isn't the only tradition with roots in pagan religion that have changed meaning over the years.. any others out there?

indireneed

What is pagan? According to OT Judaism, basically the whole New Testament is of pagan origins. This doesn't even look at what was borrowed by our good Jewish friends to make their Torah.

What comes from Greek thought? The idea of a 'son of a god', much like any of the Greek gods coming down to get some human booty. But even more so is the idea of a son of a god coming down to save people from the heavenly wars.

Additionally, many of early Christianity thoughts and ideologies came from Aristotelean and Platonic schemes. Hmm, the WT literature makes sense here.

But what about other aspects? Baptism was an ancient custom, as well as the idea of communion. Also, many aspects of Jesus' life were also 'robbed' from antiquity - the virgin birth, many of the miraculous cures, etc. had all been written about before.

Were all these 'pagan' elements just Satan trying to make it look pagan? Who knows. All I know is that if one tries to escape from the pagan, we're going to be living like Abraham and tending sheep. I'd like to see the GB doing a little real work for a living . . .

10

Adams naming of the animals?

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

may 1, 1968 p 271 has been sited on another post and it goes, thus, adam's naming of the animals.

just who in the hell was he naming them for.

wasn't he doing this prior to having eve.

indireneed

Hmmmm . . .

Would the homo non-erectus now be represented by the governing body?

Or, perhaps, their sub-genus, homo can't-get-it-upus-even-if-they-tried-us.

20

Concept of There Being A God

by Undecided in

jw
friends

is it possible for the human mind to really understand what god is?.

think about all those trillions of centries that god was alone, with no need for a language, as there were no objects to name, no one to converse with, nothing to do.

there were no subjects to hate and kill, no one to love and bless, no satan opposer to battle, sort of like being dead.

indireneed

I think that is an interesting question and one I have thought about quite a bit. After seeing how destructive religion has been and is (although I don't mean to say that nothing good comes out of it), it made me wonder what this God is really like.

Speaking from logic, my thought is that if there is a God then he necessarily cannot be defined. It is impossible to use human emotions and feelings to describe a God who is completely foreign.

The JWs and most other religions feel we can predict what he wants or what he will do because we know things about him - i.e. love, justice, etc. But these are just constructs made by humans to make God fit to them.

We're like a bunch of blind men trying to argue what a horse is and isn't. It's just impossible.

Where does that leave us? Unfortunately, the construction of a God gives some people the ability to control others. Does God approve? Who knows, I haven't heard him speak lately and don't expect too. If God was willing to let us go awry, why would he feel it necessary to come back and reward or punish us. With all this talk of eternity, some people forget to live their short life here for life itself, not for the future.

10

Adams naming of the animals?

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

may 1, 1968 p 271 has been sited on another post and it goes, thus, adam's naming of the animals.

just who in the hell was he naming them for.

wasn't he doing this prior to having eve.

indireneed

I assume that Adam named them in the 'perfect' Hebrew language. Maybe the Witnesses should start learning Hebrew so that they are ready for the dawn of the Milennium . . .

I also suppose that the left-handed people are actually more 'perfect' than right-handed people since writing Hebrew is easier for south paws due to its right to left orientation . . .

I'm going to go find myself a Mephti Mephti and break out my Hebrew grammar . . .

17

12/15/2001 WT; Christmas ok if married to non-JW?

by Alleymom in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone has the full text of the article on p.28 of the 12/15/2001 wt, in the questions from readers?.

i understand that there is an article which appears, to some, to indicate a softening of attitude regarding christmas.

i'm told that it is now ok for a jw wife married to a non-jw husband to participate in some family christmas activities as long as she doesn't regard this as an act of worship.. i would really like to have a copy of the exact wording.. many thanks!.

indireneed

The GB leaves everything up to 'conscience' and then talks about how Christmas is evil and influenced by the devil. Even if they soften up, it causes a person in their clutches to retain their old position by 'choice' rather than by 'rote'.

These guys are such twisters of the truth. You are given the option to be with your marriage mate in a celebration of life and therefore lose eternal life or stagnate and follow a bunch of 80 and 90 year old, stodgy men.