bohm

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Posts by bohm

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  20

  Topics for discussion with JWs - part 2: Frozen mamooth - proof of the Flood?

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the ble book "life - how did it get here?

  by evolution or by creation?

  " on page 203 you can see a picture of a mamooth with a note: frozen mamooth found in siberia ... still had grass in his mouth and in his stomach .... was frozen immediately ....".

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  bohm

  Well, it dosnt really matter what answer you get as to why it was instantly frozen in the flood, simply because no mammoth has ever been found that had been instantly frozen!

  The idea that there are instantly frozen mammoths originated in (iirc) the 1920 when russian scientist found one particular frozen mammoth with half digested food in its mouth. The problem is:

  • the mammoth was in full decay and had been for some time prior to freezing. this was clear since the ground around the mammoth stunk from the rotten flesh. eg. its internal organs was dissolved.
  • The mammoth had died because it fell into a ditch and broke a lot of bones and drowned. It showed clear signs of drowning, eg. it had an erection which higher mamals get when drowning.
  • The idea that it had been instantly frozen arose by poor newspaper reporting. Even though the rotten mammoth stunk so bad (this is VERY well described by the poor fellows who dug it out, you can find plenty of original material written by guys who actually did the digging on the net) and was in a poor shape, some of the muscle tissue looked surprisingly good, and when they did the autopsy they threw the meat they cut of away to some dogs who ate it. A poor fellow even tried to cut out a piece of (muscle) tissue from the mammoth, fry it, fill it with spices and eat it; he threw up. However, that the mammoth was in so good shape that it could be eaten was created in a newspaper, and has existed ever since thanks to creationists.

  So dont ask why an instantly froozen mammoth indicate the flood, because no such thing has ever been found! ask what his sources are, and show him that the WT is just a tool for propegating creationist lies when it comes to evolution.

  sorry for the rant. that book annoys me!
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  20

  Topics for discussion with JWs - part 2: Frozen mamooth - proof of the Flood?

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the ble book "life - how did it get here?

  by evolution or by creation?

  " on page 203 you can see a picture of a mamooth with a note: frozen mamooth found in siberia ... still had grass in his mouth and in his stomach .... was frozen immediately ....".

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  bohm

  Sorry, i wrote "arguments" in my previous post, that should be "pseudoscience, lies, misquotations, bad logic, wishfull thinking and gibberish". I would very much recommend this page written by a former jehovas witness to the governing body regarding his research in the book, and the kind of misquotations he found:

  http://www.dimaggio.org/Heretic/critical.htm

  If anyone is interested for a refutation of some of the claims in the book, se here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html or here : http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/
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  20

  Topics for discussion with JWs - part 2: Frozen mamooth - proof of the Flood?

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the ble book "life - how did it get here?

  by evolution or by creation?

  " on page 203 you can see a picture of a mamooth with a note: frozen mamooth found in siberia ... still had grass in his mouth and in his stomach .... was frozen immediately ....".

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  bohm

  Well, "Live - how dit it get here?" is a treasuretrove of pseudoscience and flat out lies: "Look, frozen mammoths! Thats Weird! This prooves the flood!".

  Whats even more interesting is that its also flat out 100% wrong. check out these links:

  http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC361_2.html

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mammoths.html

  Most of the arguments in the book is lifted from creationist litterature, or from creationist litterature through crackpots. One of my all time favorites: It gets the definition of evolution wrong. Thats right - a book on evolution where they dont even get the definition right! (they confuse the theory of biological evolution with the theory of abiogenesis).
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  7

  STORY ON NEXT ABOUT WEST PALM BEACH JWS SAYING "END IS NEAR"

  by WuzLovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wtf????

  they are beginning a lecture series at the convention center !!!

  i will let you know in a minute what they said.

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  bohm

  I think its really amazing they continue to bring up the "signs" for armageddon (war, earthquakes, plagues, ...), when all it takes is 5 minutes and google to show that there is less war and plagues now than in the previous centuries (relatively speaking), and the number of earthquakes are constant.

  Im asking seriously, what would the reply be if one confronted a witness with those facts and asked what his resources were? (or better yet, just ask him for his sources, and let him google it for himself!).
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  5

  Experiences with Structured Interaction Approach

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello!.

  im currently reading dr. hassans "releasing the bonds", and im wondering if any of you have experiences/tips on using his structured interaction approach and other methods outlined in the book?.

  sincerely!.

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  bohm

  leavingwt: Well, its not for me - its my girlfriend who made the jump out of the watchtower (and her extremely worried parents who think im the antichrist, and the best way to solve THAT problem is to accuse my girlfriend of engaging in butsex and a gazillion other redicilous things, but i digress).
  Anyway, i think right now its more important to focus on the psychological side of her transition, since I have allready supplied her with a lot of facts on WT learning (history, chronology, the pyramids, millerites, false eschatology, 607, alluminium, etc.), and she has read COC - I also fear she might get "fed up" on facts, that it all becomes an exercize in critizising; I would much rather try to understand some of the psychological aspects.
  This is actually a funny side note: What i think was the greatest shock for her was to discover what a completely dishonest piece of drivel "Life - how did it get here?" is, i think i wrote about 100 pages on that book - Scholar, if you can pull yourself away from the chronology, can you please explain why carbon 14 dosnt work without pretending a well-known crackpot without any credentials is a known scientist?

  Ill try to read Randy Watters book.. i have read some of his essays and i really like his writing style.
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  5

  Experiences with Structured Interaction Approach

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello!.

  im currently reading dr. hassans "releasing the bonds", and im wondering if any of you have experiences/tips on using his structured interaction approach and other methods outlined in the book?.

  sincerely!.

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  bohm

  leavingwt: Im primarily reading it because im interested in knowing how to best communicate with active (believing) witnesses (not so much to get them out, but just to improve communication, build up trust), and also to remove implanted phobias in a witness who is on her way out, as to make the transition smoother and easier.

  I thought it would be interesting to ask because its my impression that most here has left because their own converns eventually overpowered them, and few has been actively in contact with anti-mindcontrol techniques, but thats just my impression.

  The more i think about how it feels to leave the more scary it sounds, i mean, the idea "what if they are right" must linger for some time, even if its not on a rational level..
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  5

  Experiences with Structured Interaction Approach

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello!.

  im currently reading dr. hassans "releasing the bonds", and im wondering if any of you have experiences/tips on using his structured interaction approach and other methods outlined in the book?.

  sincerely!.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  bohm

  Hello!

  Im currently reading Dr. Hassans "Releasing the bonds", and im wondering if any of you have experiences/tips on using his structured interaction approach and other methods outlined in the book?

  Sincerely!
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  11

  Getting a baptizement canceled because of mental issues?

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a girlfriend who was born into a jehovas witness family.

  naturally she took up the religion and was eventually babtized when she was 18.

  (she is 21 today).

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  bohm

  One *can* get a baptizement annulled - we know that for a fact because a friend of her had it done (he is quite a nice guy but has a mental history).
  Its the question of what is required to have it done..
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  11

  Getting a baptizement canceled because of mental issues?

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a girlfriend who was born into a jehovas witness family.

  naturally she took up the religion and was eventually babtized when she was 18.

  (she is 21 today).

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  bohm

  Thanks for your advice jaguarbass!

  Well, thats an easy solution :o). We are really afraid of her being disfollowshipped. In a while she will be moving a couple of hundred miles away so that part is allready set.

  She will be moving in with a couple of girls (not jv) but it is known to her current congregation that she has a boyfriend. Your reasonably sure they wont kick her out just because she does not attend meetings and has a (worldly) boyfriend? (I read in the book for Elders that it would be reason for disfellowshipping if there was strong reasons to expect something improper was going on. Im not sure if this could be enough).
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  11

  Getting a baptizement canceled because of mental issues?

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a girlfriend who was born into a jehovas witness family.

  naturally she took up the religion and was eventually babtized when she was 18.

  (she is 21 today).

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bohm

  Hello!

  I have a girlfriend who was born into a Jehovas Witness family. Naturally she took up the religion and was eventually babtized when she was 18. (she is 21 today). Her choice of becoming baptized happened because of the wish from her parents, and because her boyfriend of the time very much wanted her to be baptized. They later became engaged to be married.

  Now, the boyfriend is a true piece of work, he is one of the most manipulative, abusive asshats i has ever had the displeasure to talk to, and he totally ran her into the ground. About a year ago she dumped him, but it was to late, and she had a major mental brakedown.
  She hurt herself in various ways, and in the end she tried to take her own life and was admitted to a mental hospital. She was (and is) treated with psychiatry and antidepressants, got better, met me and had her eyes opened to various aspects of the teachings of jehovas witnesses which she was not familiar with at the time.

  This has caused her to have a change of heart in her religious choice, and no longer believe in the teachings of Jehovas Witnesses. Naturally this is a great problem for both of us, because we are facing the threat of her being disfellowshipped. One way to us out of this pickly is if she could have her baptizement canceled, so we are trying to seek the possibilities for that.

  Our reason for this would be that she was not in a sound state of mind when she took her descision to get baptized, and that is the case we would try to make.

  It was noted in her file when she tried to take her own life that she was not "acting like a person of her age should" (she was *really* in the crapper so there should properly be other GoodStuff there. They was originally suspecting borderline!), and we could get various statements from her psychiatrist to back this up, eg. that she was having major mental problems around that time.
  We furthermore assume that we could get the psychiatrist to give various statements which may be a colored version of the truth, as long as it is not in complete conflict, eg. that she (at the time of her baptizement) was so connected to her boyfriend that she may have let him think for her and that kind of things.

  So the question i would kindly ask this board to consider are these:

  • How should we approach this? What should one write to influence Bethel? Can we do something to "aid" her cause now?
  • What should be included in such a request from the psychiatrist and from the hospital to build up a just cause?
  • Is is better to do it now, or wait? (she is moving to a new congreation very soon but does not plans to attend)
  • Any other information, experiences, etc.?

  Sincerely!
  The anonomous couple.

  ps
  I should properly note that she is able to think for herself today. She is a very sweet and nice person, and you would not be able to tell what she has been through if you met her, and her choide in religion is one i has let her deside on her own without threat of leaving her or other crap since i believe no sane person or persons would behave like that *wink* *wink*.