bohm

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Posts by bohm

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  226

  Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

  by the research lady in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

  our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

  the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

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  bohm

  propeganda 101: go for the messenger, not the message. Is this really a good way search for the truth?
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  5

  Apollo Programme an "Evidence of Pagan Worship"

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this being the anniverary and all, i remembered this comment by the wts about the appollo programme.

  seems that it was all evidence of pagan worship .

  the ludicrousness of this paragraph stuck me when we studied it , as a young man - but being a good dub i just shrugged and read the paragraph as directed.. ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. 36" no, the religionists of christendom today do not actually worship the sun, for they know from their scientists something of what the sun is, so as to know that it is no god.

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  bohm

  look at THIS homoerotic fallic symbol :-)

  

  and by the way, how can ANYONE say "annointed John-class" and keep a straight face is beoynd me :-)
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  4

  "Wonders of Creation" - new DVD

  by Mickey mouse in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if you haven't seen it and can stomach a short clip, check this out (especially the sequence from around one minute in):.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fkxuirinxw&feature=related.

  there should be a caption that says "if you are thinking of becoming a jehovah's witness, this is what you can expect from life".. .

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  bohm

  the dad has a very annoying effect on me :-)

  sad, its the end of an era, the script has obviously been proofread by someone who is a bit knowledgeable about the subject. i will miss the good ol' times with the water canopy and wild speculations vagualy based on creationists...
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  43

  Imperfection isn't the problem. The problem is accountability.

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this was such a profound statement on another thread that i think it bears some further thought, esp because the governing body tends to put their head in the sand as to how their current teachings and dogma do harm to their sheep.

  we will come back to current teachings in a minute.. first of all, this is how jehovah's witnesses are taught to view their leaders.

  from the july 1, 2007 wt "humbly submitting to loving shepherds".

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  bohm

  white dove: or perfectly unspiritually misdirected ;-) .

  Excelent essay jeff! its allways interesting to read what you write! especially the way it deals with "real" witness counter-arguments. i especially like the phrase: "Satan didn't make them stupid, they did that all on their own." :-)

  about the other powers... its amazing to think that they managed to get that one wrong AFTER jesus supposedly had selected them. The holy spirit does move in mysterious ways. like not at all.
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  89

  Everybody say hi to my husband...

  by cognac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because we have a stinken spy on our hands!

  oh, and he wants to let everyone know that he is unbreakable in the truth.

  as a matter of fact, hes going out in service both saturday and sunday.

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  bohm

  Hey cognacs husband!

  I have not been a jw, or a member of anything that i now know is known as "worldly religion". I was only introduced to jw 5 months ago by someone i love dearly, so i have looked at it "as an outsider". I tried to evaluate it. I tried to say: "it would be better if this was true". I tried to listen to her and make myself agree, i tried to read your material and i PREFER, in every way, if there is an earthly paradise waiting, and i know i would do my best to accomplish any king of work or task if it meant i could be there with those i love.

  Unfortunately, i mean that, i have come to the conclusion that it is not the truth.

  People here are asking you to do various things.. this is what i suggest for you:

  open a beer. Then think of the following christian value that, allthough im not a christian, i very much agree with as a guide in life: allways search for truth, no matter how painfull, allways search for it, never just let yourself be satisfied that you know everything, but be active in that search. try to meditate over that, and how you do it in your daily life.

  i know there are ways of searching you wont do because your conscience wont allow you, at least not for now... like i will never, ever walk in to a scientology office and take a test, or live with the moonies just one week, because i know those things are *bad* and i dont have to do it to know they are full of worthless information and distortions and will try to desieve me in an unethical fashion. similarly, i assume you feel about apostates - i will ask you to think a bit on what you *think* apostates may say that are so bad, but that is not so important. What i think you will be amazed to consider is that most here came to the realization that the organization has very little to do with god by reading what the organization itself writes. yes, no long discourses over material written by worldly religion, or slander, or "OMG all witnesses are pedofiles!!", simply reading what the watchtower has considered. So just make a descision only to consider litterature out of the watchtower itself, it wont make any difference!

  Now here is the study question i invite you to look into with just witness material, no worldly propeganda: it is clearly stated in eg. the proclaimers book that jehova selected his organization in 1919 based on what spiritual food the organization served at that time. this is not something im making up or they puplished in 1938, see:

  wt january 15, 2008: When Christ inspected the faithful and discreet slave’
  in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be
  faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’
  Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them
  “over all his belongings.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47) -
  p. 24 – See Appendix, p. 150

  or gb member/leader frederick franz himself in " gods kingdom of a thousand year" 350-355:

  The serving of food, the right sort of food at the
  proper time was the issue. It had to be according
  to this that a decision must be rendered by
  the returned master [Jesus]…On inspecting [the Society]
  in the year 1919 C.E… Jesus Christ did find the
  appointed ”slave” faithful and discreet in the feeding
  of his [disciples].

  ...

  Could they, by even their latest record [of teachings]
  down till 1919 prove that they themselves were the
  composite “faithful and discreet slave” class of Jesus
  Christ?… The quality of the food itself was to be considered.
  – para. 40

  So this is where i ask you to start: go in jesus footsteps, back in 1919, and examine what JESUS saw the WATCHTOWER WAS TEACHING that MADE HIM select them. notice that you dont have to examine teaching after 1919 - as it clearly states he selected them for the quality of the food served prior to 1919, so if you think about it, that is what you should consider.

  And by consider, i dont suggest you do it by looking at apostate litterature - just find those old books and magazines! they are avaliable as scans for free, or simply read in the history book! here is a starter you should be able to answer quickly: when did rutherford and russel realize this inspection was going to happend in 1919 and that it had happened? how long time did jesus have to "knock on the door" for the "watchfull slave" to open it?

  thanks for your time. i wish you the best of luck in your life. your family is the most important thing.
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  54

  Howdy from a long time lurker

  by Cadellin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  greetings all:.

  i just want to say howdy and thank you .

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  bohm

  I would find Evolutionists (etc.) more credible if they first accepted the premise that Astrology/dowsing/scientology and elron hubbarts Word [dianetics] must be true, and worked to prove how it could be, rather than using language that dismisses and/or discredits [these ideas]

  spike, you really cant tell the difference between science and your own arse with a flashlight, or you just want to throw away the basic tennet of science because it dosnt fit your worldview?

  Cadellin, i love your story. i really wish you the best with your husband, my girl is in the truth and damn thats a headache sometimes even without the overhead of having to find your own feets at the same time. the creation book was also what shaped my early view of jw - my girl gave it to me early on while she was still in it, and i spend a long time going through it and weeding out the misquotations and lies in it. i think its very interesting to find so many others here on the board have done exactly the same though by the sound of it you know a hell of a lot more about human evolution than me :-). Sometime i wish there was a better way to "compound" all this research...

  Reniaa: if you really feel so compelled to defend the truth, heres a couple of question from someone who knows a liiitle about information. The book in question state, in a lot of places, that "information can not arise because of mutations, therefore evolution cannot create new information". so i ask you this as a person who has recently written a 40 page report on information geometry in neural networks and generally know his shit about this topic:

  1) what is the definition of information? i know of 3 which are used by creationists in this context - negative kolmogorov complexity (which im sure its not), (physical) entropy and shannon information. In the case of the last two - please elaborate on how the definition applies to this physical system.

  2) then prove mathematically (i assume you, like the author of that book, have done minimal research on the topic of information before writing about it with authority, so you will know that the question IS a mathematical one) that information does not arise by (the formalized) version of the evolutionary process. and please dont quote dempski to me because he is so full of shit and a laugh to anyone who know ANYTHING about the subject. please do better than that.

  3) now for a little checkup, explain how this can be harmonized by evolutionary algorithms which so clearly build up complexity and create novel solutions to hard problems by the same mechanisms that lie behind evolution.

  if you cant - well your not alone. i have never seen anyone do it. yet the statement is repeated over and over again by people who dont even have a clue about what it means. but in case you can at least aknowledge that that chapter is a piece of trash and basically amounts to raising one persons oppinion to a scientific fact, without even caring to examine what the scientists say. and if you defend the position you are committing the same injustice.
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  34

  Some things really ticked me off at the meeting last night...

  by wantarevolution in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...aside from the snooze fest that was the "bible study", taken by a brother who was 5 minutes late - went 10 minutes over and obiously hadn't prepared shit for the meeting (this is the same brother that "encouraged" me to be 15 minutes early for all meetings to welcome people).

  1) i had the no3 talk, about "christians helping the poor", no source material or anything.

  i played it good, spoke about our duty to be good christians, and charitable to everyone, and how it is a conscience matter as to how we donate our money or charitable deeds.i even used a quote by mother theresa.

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  bohm

  spike: After all, the travelling overseers are fed, so why shouldn't the physically-hungry who also enjoy this message of Kingdom hope.

  question: is it not equally important to feed all, regardless of what message they enjoy or do not enjoy? or your definition of being christian is so narrow you only want to help those who think like you?

  ps

  im just curious, why do you talk about yourself in 3rd person?
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  13

  Today's Daily Text: We Will Kill Our Opponents

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  bohm

  THATS spiritual food?! i want to know the ways and methods my family is going to get executed by jehovah so i feel motivated to praise him! i was expecting an article or something, WITH PICTURES! this is more like spiritual dandruff on the soup.

  guess i have to write bethel for an extra serving...

  ps

  there are two ways to look at what spiritual food becomes after you have eaten it. one is nourishment, the other...
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  6

  Everyone is missing a good chance to make a statement on this website

  by LearningToFly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i understand we are all sick of hearing about michael jackson.

  this website called the kaleidoscope factor has numerous pro-jw comments posted by obvious jw's, with few posts telling the truth about the religion.. here is the link that was posted in another post: http://traceyricksfoster.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/michael-jacksons-children-attend-local-kingdom-hall-of-jehovahs-witnesses-with-aunt/.

  here is a good chance to make a statement, one which will be seen by many.. regards,.

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  bohm

  damn... that moderator is a real piece of work "put the old books away and join us in the 21st century", well, here in the 21st century they teach jesus selected them based on what the taught up to ... 1919! so is that not the only really relevant time to check out? i mean, if jesus selected them back then, everything they teach now must be true regardless, if he didnt, well ...
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  13

  Today's Daily Text: We Will Kill Our Opponents

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  bohm

  is there a pdf version of this spiritual food? :-)