Posts by bohm

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Ruby: I think that what people are objecting to about Islam is that ideas like child marriage shouldn't be in currency but that they are makes Islam reprehensible. I think this sort of reasoning is pretty cogent don't you?

Yes, as I have written many times, I think the Quran is full of things I find morally indefensible. But this is not the topic I raised several pages back, which was the assertion that good Muslims have to rape, something which I remain unconvinced of.

Since this or other of my views (although I am not sure which) are too controversial for this forum I cannot comment further. So much for open debate, I guess.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Muhammed also had 4 wives. Are all Muslims with less than 4 wives not good muslims?

What about female muslims? do they also have to rape? When did we prove that?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

LUHE:

Agree that Muhammed was a pedophile according to the Quran, and pedophilia is widespread in the Arab world for that reason. But obviously, not all Muslims agree, as your sources indicate.

How does that prove that a good Muslim have to rape?

Why does a muslim become "non good" if he does not rape?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

LUHE: You agree with the claim that all good muslims have to rape. Proving that some parts of Islam admits rape is not the same as proving that all good Muslims have to rape

Do you believe all "good Muslims" are in ISIS?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Although not necessarily considered part of mainstream Islam, everything ISIS does is according to Sharia and the example of Muhammad. So, ISIS members have the required qualities of Muhammad's example and meet the strict standard of Sharia. Hence, they can be spoken of as 'good' Muslims.

Okay. So we agree that on ISIS interpretation of Islam, rape is fine and dandy in some cases. What you have demonstrated so far is therefore that on ISIS interpretation of Islam, which you yourself describe as not necessarily mainstream*, rape is fine. Accordingly you implicitly agree there are other interpretation of Islam according to which rape is not okay. (you agree with me on that? or do you believe all interpretations of Islam teaches its adherents they *have* to rape?)

At most where you end up is that you work with a definition of "good muslim" according to which ISIS are PART of the set of good Muslims and ISIS allows rape (I refrain from parsing the difference between allows and orders rape, i.e. the "have").

Can you please tell me how you get from these premises to the statement that a "good Muslim" have to rape?

For your ISIS example to be relevant you will have to prove ISIS contains all the "good Muslims". I know ISIS believes that, but I am very curious as to how you will prove it.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

SBF: Don't despair, any moment now LUHE will provide the intellectual artillery required to prove a good Muslim have to rape. It will be a brutal knock-down argument.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Adherents is probably a better word, and yes, scumbags ISIS or otherwise who base their bullshit on the Quran are very adherent. Hows that?

I think that is exactly what I have been saying for pages. I even quoted a scholar who holds that belief: ISIS base their beliefs on the Quran, in particular one kind of interpretation of the Quran. If this is not true I would like to see a refutation.

bohm I think the problem is you are trying to discuss ISIS vs Islam, and to me that's not the discussion.

What is the discussion then? I objected to the claim that a good muslim has to be a rapist. If you believe this claim is true I would very much like to hear your reasoning. If not, I don't understand what people are objecting to as this has been my point.

ISIS is one crap part of it, but its not all, its not all the terrorists, it's not all the human rights that Islam violates

Well, bingo. That's precisely my point. Can you explain how I am an Islamophile if we agree that ISIS is a subset of Islam but not all of Islam? It is possible you are suffering of some Islamophelia as well.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

very well. Noting that I think it is oversimplifying things then yes. I am now curious to hear your argument for why a good Muslim must be a rapist.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

I am bored of this conversation. I replied by a reference to an article because I don't think a yes or no answer is very illuminating. If I do give a yes or no answer anyway, despite my belief that important nuances will be lost, will you answer my question?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

LUHE: I actually answered that; my views are similar to Bernhard Haykel. tl;dr: ISIS is in important ways deriving their teachings from the Quran.

While I don't think ISIS is as historically accurate as they portray themselves to be (read the article) I do not (and have not!) at any point denied they derive many of their teachings from the Quran, which I consider to be full of morally outrageous teachings, often using natural interpretations,

Now that I have pointed out I have answered this question can you now explain how we go from that fact to demonstrating that "to be a good Muslim you have to be a butcher and a rapist"? I will make it easier for you: I will be content with a demonstration that a good Muslim have to be a rapist.