Posts by 4examp

13

Public Challenge #1 ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

"the wt conclusion is intellectually dishonest & deliberately deceitful in that the wt is only telling you 4/5 of the truth.".

my mistake.

the sentence should say "1/5 of the truth".. .

4examp

The use of the NT word "pneuma" is wonderfully rich with intriguing treasure-trails to explore.

You wrote : "The Watchtower claim is equally dubious, of course."The 5 Portrait presentation was created with a deliberately narrow focus only on:- "holy"& "unholy" pneuma- the WT's deliberately deceitful conclusion
- the WT's basis for the conclusion
- fair treatment (i.e. the other 4/5 of the story, MUST BE ACCEPTED on the same basis).

The WT statement, reverberates with intellectually dishonesty.
"...in a large number of cases the expression 'holy spirit'
appears in the original Greek without the article,
thus indicating its LACK of PERSONALITY."

The WT & Jason & others praise the merits of the NWT & the KI.
Fine, then it's perfectly appropriate to spotlight WT "scholarship", commentary, conclusions.

I welcome anyone's scholary comments, because the light on this "quote vs truth" will just shine brighter & brighter :-)

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

Sorry for the technical problems with the posts.

They looked fine before I hit "Submit".

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

35. The Holy Spirit speaks directly (with His Personal Voice){5 a} Ac.13:2 ~ {

estin to pneuma to agion } said (G2036): "Set Barnabas & Saul apart for Me for I have called them"
b} Ac.19:15 ~ { to pneuma to ponhron estin } said (G2036): "I know Jesus & I am acquainted with Paul; but who are you?"
{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias} HE will guide you into all the truth, for HE will not speak (G2980) of Himself, but what things HE hears HE will speak (G2980), & HE will declare (G312) to you the things coming
{5 a} Jn.16:14 ~ that one will glorify Me, because He ...will declare (G312) it to you
{5 a} Jn.16:15 ~ that is why I said He ...declares (G312) it to you
{3 a} Ac.8:29 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to Philip: "Approach & join yourself to this chariot"
{3 a} Ac.10:19 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to Peter: "Look! Three men are seeking you"
{ctx} Ac.10:20 ~ "RISE, go downstairs & be on your way with them, not doubting at all, because I have dispatched them"
{ctx} Ac.11:7 ~ I also heard a VOICE (G5456) say to me, "RISE, Peter, slaughter & eat!"
{ctx} Ac.11:8 ~ but I said, "Not at all, Lord, because a defiled or unclean thing has never entered into my mouth"
{ctx} Ac.11:9 ~ the 2nd time the VOICE (G5456) from heaven answered, "You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed"
{ctx} Ac.11:10 ~ this occurred for a 3rd time, & everything was pulled up again into heaven
{ctx} Ac.11:11 ~ at that instant there were 3 men standing at the house in which we were
{3 a} Ac.11:12 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to me to go with them
{4 a} Ac.16:6 ~ they were forbidden by {tou agiou pneu.matos} to speak the word in Asia
{3 J} Ac.16:7 ~ they attempted to go into Bithynia, but {to pneuma} of Jesus did not permit them
{5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies to me saying (G3004) bonds & tribulations are waiting for me
{5 a} Ac.21:11 ~ Agabus picked up Paul’s girdle, bound his own feet & hands & said: "Thus says (G3004) {to pneuma to agion}"
(({1 a} Ac.23:9 ~ we find nothing wrong in this man; but if a {pneuma} or an angel spoke G2980) to him))
{3 a} Rom.8:26b ~ but {to pneuma} itself pleadshyper-intercedes (G5241) for us with groanings (G4726) unuttered{3 a} Rom.8:27 ~ He knows what the meaning mind of {tou pneu.matos} is, because it is pleadingintercedes (G1793) for believers
{cf} Rom.8:34 ~ Jesus also pleads for us
{3 a} 1Tim.4:1 ~ {to (de) pneuma} expressly (G4490,1x) says (G3004) some will pay attention to {pneu.masin planois} & teachings of [daimoniwn]
{5 a} Heb.3:7 ~ {to pneuma to agion} is saying (G3004): "Today if you people listen..." (+3:8-11,13,15; 4:3-5,7)
{3 a} Rev.2:7 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.2:11 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.2:17 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.2:29 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.3:6 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.3:13 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.3:22 ~ hear what {to pneuma} says (G3004) to the congregations
{3 a} Rev.14:13 ~ "Yes, says (G3004) {to pneuma}, let them rest from their labors"
{3 a} Rev.22:17 ~ {to pneuma} & the bride are saying (G3004): "Come!" & let anyone hearing say: "Come!"

36. The Holy Spirit speaks directly & expressly (deliberately, distinctly, intentionately, pointedly, specifically, unequivocally)
{3 a} 1Tim.4:1 ~ {to (de) pneuma} expressly (G4490,1x) says (G3004) some will pay attention to {pneu.masin planois} & teachings of [daimoniwn]

37. The Holy Spirit speaks directly in conversation{3 a} Ac.8:29 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to Philip: "Approach & join yourself to this chariot"
{3 a} Ac.10:19 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to Peter: "Look! Three men are seeking you"
{ctx} Ac.10:20 ~ "RISE, go downstairs & be on your way with them, not doubting at all, because I have dispatched them"
{ctx} Ac.11:7 ~ I also heard a VOICE (G5456) say to me, "RISE, Peter, slaughter & eat!"
{ctx} Ac.11:8 ~ but I said, "Not at all, Lord, because a defiled or unclean thing has never entered into my mouth."
{ctx} Ac.11:9 ~ the 2nd time the VOICE (G5456) from heaven answered, "You stop calling defiled, the things God has cleansed"
{ctx} Ac.11:11 ~ at that instant there were 3 men standing at the house in which we were
{3 a} Ac.11:12 ~ {to pneuma} said (G2036) to me to go with them
{5 a} Ac.13:2 ~ {to pneuma to agion} said (G2036): "Set Barnabas & Saul apart for Me for I have called them"
{4 a} Ac.16:6 ~ they were forbidden by {tou agiou pneu.matos} to speak the word in Asia
{3 J} Ac.16:7 ~ they attempted to go into Bithynia, but {to pneuma} of Jesus did not permit them
{5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies to me saying (G3004) bonds & tribulations are waiting for me
{5 a} Ac.21:11 ~ Agabus picked up Paul’s girdle, bound his own feet & hands & said: "Thus says (G3004) {to pneuma to agion}"
{3 a} Rev.22:17 ~ {to pneuma} & the bride are saying (G3004): "Come!" & let anyone hearing say: "Come!"

38. The Holy Spirit speaks directly in conversation & with repetition{ctx} Ac.11:10 ~ this occurred for a 3rd time, & everything was pulled up again into heaven

39. The Holy Spirit invites (you to "hear" the above evidence, & respond to His invitation)
{3 a} Rev.22:17 ~ {to pneuma} & the bride are saying (G3004): "Come!" & let anyone hearing say: "Come!"

40. The Holy Spirit enables us to be born in spirit, & communicate / understand spiritual things
{cf} 1Cor.2:14 ~ physical man doesn’t receive things of {tou pneu.matos} of God, it is foolishness to him; not able to know, because spiritually it is discerned
{1 a} Jn.3:5 ~ Jesus said: "Amen, Amen I say, unless you are born out of water & {pneu.matos} you CANNOT enter the kingdom of God
{3 a} Jn.3:6 ~ what is born out of flesh is flesh, what is born out of {tou pneu.matos} is {pneuma}
{ctx} Jn.3:7 ~ you MUST be born again
{ctx} Jn.3:16 ~ whoever believes in Jesus will not perish but will have life everlasting
{ctx} Jn.3:36 ~ he that believes in Jesus has life everlasting ~ he that disobeys Jesus has the wrath of God
{cf} Jn.1:12 ~ whoever receives Jesus, receives (birth) right to become God's son or daughter
{cf} Ac.4:12 ~ there's no salvation in anyone else, no other name by which we MUST be saved
{cf} Rom.5:1 ~ having been justified by faith, we have peace with God only through Jesus
{cf} Rom.8:1 ~ for there's no condemnation for those IN Jesus
{5 a} Rom.8:2 ~ for the law of {tou pneu.matos} of life IN Jesus, set you free from the law of sin & death
{1 F} Rom.8:9a ~ if the {pneuma} of God is dwelling in you
{1 J} Rom.8:9b ~ if you don't have {pneuma} of Jesus, you don't belong to Him
{cf} Eph.2:8 ~ for by grace we have been saved through faith, it is a gift from God
{2 a} Tts.3:5 ~ not by works of righteousness we perform (e.g. good deeds, devotion, sacrifice, prayer, witnessing, mtgs, bible study), but by mercy He saves us through {pneu.matos agiou}

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

28. The Holy Spirit speaks through dreams{3 a} Ac.2:17 ~ I shall pour out from {tou pneu.matos} of Me upon all flesh, your old men will dream (G1798,1x), dreams (G1797,2x)
{cf} Mt.1:20; 2:12,13,19,22; 27:19

29. The Holy Spirit speaks through visions{3 a} Ac.2:17 ~ I shall pour out from {tou pneu.matos} of Me upon all flesh, your young men will see visions (G3706,4x)
{cf} Ac.10:19; 11:5; 16:9; 18:9

30. The Holy Spirit speaks through humans{3 aF} Mt.10:20 ~ don’t be anxious, {to pneuma} of the Father will speak (G2980,296x) in you
{5 a} Mk.12:36 ~ David spoke (G2036,977x) about the Christ [en=in/by] {tw pneu.mati tw agiw}
{5 a} Mk.13:11 ~ don’t be anxious, {to pneuma to agion] will speak (G2980) through you
{ctx} Lk.12:11 ~ don’ be anxious about how or what you will speak in defense (G626) or what you will say
{4 a} Lk.12:12 ~ {to (gar) agion pneuma} will (not just speak but) teach (G1321 you what to say
{5 a} Ac.1:16 ~ {to pneuma to agion} foretold (G4277) by David’s mouth about Judas
{2 a} Ac.4:8 ~ having been filled with {pneu.matos agiou} Peter said (G2036){2 a} Ac.4:25 ~ through {pneu.matos agiou} said (G2036) by the mouth of David, ‘Why did nations
{4 a} Ac.4:31 ~ filled with {tou agiou pneu.matos} & were speaking (G2980) the word of God with boldness
{3 a} Ac.6:10 ~ they could not withstand the wisdom & {tw pneu.mati} Stephen was speaking (G2980){3 a} Ac.11:28 ~ Agabus indicated (G4591) through {tou pneu.matos} that a great famine was about to come
{3 a} Ac.21:4 ~ through {tou pneu.matos} they repeatedly told (G3004) Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem
{5 a} Ac.21:11 ~ Agabus picked up Paul’s girdle, bound his own feet & hands & said: "Thus says (G3004) {to pneuma to agion}"
{5 a} Ac.28:25 ~ aptly {to pneuma to agion} spoke (G2980) through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers
{3 J} Gal.4:6 ~ because you are sons, God sent {to pneuma} of His Son into our hearts crying (G2896,59x): "Abba, Father"

31. The Holy Spirit speaks through humans, giving prophecy{2 a} Lk.1:67 ~ Zacharias was filled with {pneu.matos agiou} & prophesied (G4395,28x) about John (& Jesus?)
{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ Jesus said when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias}, HE will declare to you the things coming (G2064,643x){5 a} Ac.1:16 ~ necessary for scripture to be fulfilled, which {to pneuma to agion} foretold (G4277) by David’s mouth about Judas
{3 a} Ac.2:17 ~ I shall pour out from {tou pneu.matos} of Me upon all flesh, your sons & daughters will prophesy (G4395){3 a} Ac.2:18 ~ I will pour out from {tou pneu.matos} of Me & they will prophesy (G4395){3 a} Ac.11:28 ~ Agabus indicated through {tou pneu.matos} that a great famine was about to come (G1098,678x)"
{5 a} Ac.19:6 ~ Paul laid hands on them, {to pneuma to agion} came upon them, speaking with tongues & prophesying (G4395){5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies to me saying bonds & tribulations are waiting for me
{5 a} Ac.21:11 ~ Agabus picked up Paul’s girdle, bound his own feet & hands & said: "Thus says {to pneuma to agion}
{1 c} 1Cor.12:10 ~ to another prophesying (G4394,19x){5 a} Heb.10:15 ~ {to pneuma to agion} also bears witness to us , for after it has said before (G4280):
{2 a} 2Pet.1:21 ~ prophecy (G4394) at no time brought by man’s will, men spoke from God borne along by {pneu.matos agiou}

32. The Holy Spirit speaks through humans, giving Divine wisdom{3 a} 1Cor.12:8a ~ to one is given through {tou pneu.matos} word of wisdom

33. The Holy Spirit speaks through humans, giving Divine knowledge{3 a} 1Cor.12:8b ~ to another word of knowledge as per {to (auto) pneuma}

34. The Holy Spirit speaks through Scripture (proving He is The Author of Scripture)
compare Mk.12:36 with Ps.110:1
compare Ac.1:16-20 with Ps.41:9 / 69:25 / 109:8
compare Ac.28:25 with Isa.6:9,10
compare Heb.3:7-11 with Ps.95:7-11
compare Heb.10:15-17 with Jer.31:33,34
{5 a} Mk.12:36 ~ Jesus said that David spoke (G2036) about the Christ [en=in/by] {tw pneu.mati tw agiw}
{5 a} Ac.1:16 ~ necessary for scripture to be fulfilled, which {to pneuma to agion} foretold (G4277) by David’s mouth about Judas
{5 a} Ac.28:25 ~ aptly {to pneuma to agion} spoke (G2980) through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers
{3 a} Eph.6:17 ~ accept the helmet of salvation, & the sword of {tou pneu.matos}, that is, God’s word (G4487)
{5 a} Heb.3:7 ~ {to pneuma to agion} is saying (G3004): "Today if you people listen...(+3:8-11,13,15; 4:3-5,7)
{5 a} Heb.10:15 ~ {to pneuma to agion} also bears witness to us , for after it has said before (G4280):

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

22. The Holy Spirit reminds{5 a} Jn.14:26 ~ The Paraclete-Advocate, {to pneuma to agion}, that one, will teach you all things & remind (G5279,7x) of all things I said

23. The Holy Spirit warns{3 a} Mt.12:31 ~ no forgiveness for blasphemy against {tou pneu.matos} ~~catastrophic consequences~~
{5 a} Mt.12:32 ~ no forgiveness ever, for blasphemy against {tou pneu.matos tou agiou} ~~emphatic c.c.~~
{5 a} Mk.3:29 ~ no forgiveness forever, for eternal sin of blasphemy against {to pneuma to agion} ~~emphatic c.c.~~
{4 a} Lk.12:10 ~ no forgiveness for blasphemy against {to agion pneuma} ~~c.c.~~
{3 a} Ac.20:22 ~ bound in {tw pneu.mati}, I am journeying to Jerusalem
{5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies to me saying bonds & tribulations are waiting for me
{3 a} Ac.21:4 ~ through {tou pneu.matos} they repeatedly told Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem
{5 a} Ac.21:11 ~ Agabus picked up Paul’s girdle, bound his own feet & hands & said: "Thus says {to pneuma to agion}"

24. The Holy Spirit forbids{4 a} Ac.16:6 ~ they were forbidden (G2967,23x) by {tou agiou pneu.matos} to speak the word in Asia
{3 J} Ac.16:7 ~ they attempted to go into Bithynia, but {to pneuma} of Jesus did not permit (G1439,13x) them
{3 a} Ac.21:4 ~ through {tou pneu.matos} they repeatedly told Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem

25. The Holy Spirit helps us pray{1 a} Rom.8:15a,b ~ you didn’t receive {pneuma} of slavery ~ you rec’d {pneuma} of adoption in which we cry "Abba, Father!"
{3 a} Rom.8:26a ~ {to pneuma} is jointly helping (G4878,2x) our weakness as we don’t know what to pray
{1 a} Eph.6:18 ~ through all prayer & supplication [en=in] {pneu.mati}
{2 a} Jud.1:20 ~ praying {en=in] {pneu.mati agiw}

26. The Holy Spirit helps us pray & praise via tongues{2 a} Ac.2:4a ~ all became filled with {pneu.matos agiou} & started to speak with different tongues (G1100,50x)
{3 a} Ac.2:4b ~ just as {to pneuma} was granting them to make utterance (G669 = speak out eloquently)
{ctx} Ac.2:5 ~ there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, reverent men, from every nation of those under heaven
{ctx} Ac.2:6 ~ when this sound occurred, the multitude were bewildered, each one heard them speaking in his own language
{ctx} Ac.2:7 ~ astonished & began to wonder: all these who are speaking are Galileans, are they not?
{ctx} Ac.2:8 ~ how is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born?
{ctx} Ac.2:9 ~ Parthians, Medes, Elamites, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia
{ctx} Ac.2:10 ~ Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, parts of Libya, & sojourners from Rome both Jews & proselytes
{ctx} Ac.2:11 ~ Cretans, Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues (G1100) about the magnificent things of God
{5 a} Ac.19:6 ~ Paul laid hands on them, {to pneuma to agion} came upon them, speaking with tongues (G1100) & prophesying
{1 c} 1Cor.12:10 ~ to another different tongues (G1100), & to another interpretation of tongues (G1100)
{1 a} 1Cor.14:2 ~ he that speaks in a tongue (G1100) speaks not to men but to God, he speaks mysteries by (pneu.mati}
{3 x} 1Cor.14:14 ~ if I am praying in a tongue (G1100), {to pneuma} of me is praying, but the mind of me is unfruitful
{3 x} 1Cor.14:15a ~ I will pray as to {tw pneu.mati}, but I will also pray as to understanding
{3 x} 1Cor.14:15b ~ I will sing praise as to {tw pneu.mati}, but I will also sing praise as to understanding
{1 a} 1Cor.14:16 ~ if you offer praise in {pneu.mati}, how will an ordinary person say "Amen" to your giving of thanks, since he doesn’t know what you are saying?

27. The Holy Spirit helps us communicate love{3 a} Gal.5:22,23 ~ the fruit of {tou pneu.matos} is love, joy, peace, long-suffering. kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control
- Humans communicate & express love by giving & receiving: Words / Actions / Gifts / Touch / Time.
- HE communicates & expresses His love by giving to us, & growing in us, the ability to love, have joy, peace, etc.

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

9. The Holy Spirit comforts (revealing His desire to minister to us, not just communicate through us)
{ctx} Jn.14:18 ~ Jesus said, I shall not leave you bereaved (G3737,2x) I am coming to you
{ctx} Jn.14:19 ~ a little longer & the world will behold Me no more, but you will behold Me
{ctx} Jn.14:25 ~ while remaining with you I have spoken these things to you
{5 a} Jn.14:26 ~ the Paraclete-Advocate, {to pneuma to agion}, that one, will teach you all things & remind of all things I said
{1 a} Rom.8:15a,b ~ you didn’t receive {pneuma} of slavery ~ you rec’d {pneuma} of adoption (G5206,5x) in which we cry "Abba, Father!"

10. The Holy Spirit intercedes (pleads) (revealing His care & support for the battles in / for our lives)
{3 a} Rom.8:27 ~ He knows what the meaning mind of {tou pneu.matos} is, because it is pleading / intercedes (G1793,5x) for believers
{cf} Rom.8:34 ~ Jesus also pleads / intercedes (G1793) for us
{cf} Heb.7:25 ~ Jesus also pleads / intercedes (G1793) for us

11. The Holy Spirit hyper-intercedes (pleads) (revealing His intense care)
{3 a} Rom.8:26b ~ but {to pneuma} itself pleads / hyper-intercedes (G5241,1x) for us

12. The Holy Spirit hyper-intercedes (pleads) transcendently (with wordless, Divine-Heart-to-Heart communication)
{3 a} Rom.8:26b ~ but {to pneuma} itself pleads / hyper-intercedes (G5241,1x) for us with groanings (G4726,2x) unuttered (G215,1x) ~ [words suppressed by intense grief -- like when we just hug / hold someone in deep pain (to communicate our care, love, support), after a devastating tragedy]

13. The Holy Spirit commissions (calls / summons){3 a} Ac.10:19 ~ {to pneuma} said to Peter: "Look! Three men are seeking you
{ctx} Ac.10:20 ~ "RISE, go downstairs & be on your way with them, not doubting at all, because I have dispatched (G649,133x) them"
{5 a} Ac.13:2 ~ {to pneuma to agion} said: "Set Barnabas & Saul apart for Me for I have called (G4341,30x) them"
(cf} Ac.16:10 ~ God summoned (G4341) Paul to declare the good news
{4 a} Ac.13:4 ~ these men sent out (G1599,2x) by {tou agiou pneu.matos}, went down to Seleucia

14. The Holy Spirit bears witness{5 a} Jn.15:26 ~ Jesus said when the Paraclete-Advocate is come, that I will send you from the Father, {to pneuma ths alhtheias}, which proceeds from the Father, that one, will bear witness (G3140,79x) about Me
{3 J} 1Pet.1:11 ~ prophets kept on searching what or what sort of time {to (in them) pneuma} of Christ was-making-evident, witnessing-beforehand (G3143,1x) about the sufferings for Christ
{3 a} 1Jn.5:6a,b ~ {to pneuma} is the one bearing witness (G3140) because {to pneuma) is the truth

15. The Holy Spirit bears joint-witness{3 a} Ac.5:32 ~ we are witnesses (G3144,34x) of these matters & so is {to pneuma to agion}
{3 a} Rom.8:16a,b ~ {to pneuma} itself bears joint-witness (G4828,4x) with {tw pneu.mati} of us that we are children of God
{5 a} Heb.10:15 ~ {to pneuma to agion} also (G2532)bears witness (G3140) to us , for after it has said:

16. The Holy Spirit testifies{5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies (G1263,15x) to me saying bonds & tribulations are waiting for me

17. The Holy Spirit declares{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ Jesus said when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias}, HE will declare (G312,18x) to you the things coming
{5 a} Jn.16:14 ~ that one will glorify Me, because He will receive from what is Mine & will declare (G312) it to you
{5 a} Jn.16:15 ~ that is why I said He receives from what is Mine & declares (G312) it to you
{cf} Jn.16:25 ~ I (Jesus) will speak to you no more in comparisons, but I will report (G312) to you with plainness

18. The Holy Spirit teaches{4 a} Lk.12:12 ~ Jesus said don’t be anxious, {to (gar) agion pneuma} will teach (G1321,97x) (not just speak through) you what to say
{5 a} Jn.14:26 ~ the Paraclete-Advocate, {to pneuma to agion}, that one, will teach (G1321) you all things & remind of all things I said
{1 a} 1Cor.2:13 ~ we speak, not words taught in human wisdom, but words taught (G1318,3x) in {pneu.matos}

19. The Holy Spirit guides us into truth{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ Jesus said when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias} HE will guide (G3594,5x) you into all the truth
{cf} Rev.7:17 ~ The Lamb will guide (G3594) them to fountains of waters of life
{3 a} 1Cor.12:8a ~ to one is given through {tou pneu.matos} word of wisdom (G4678,51x)
{3 a} 1Cor.12:8b ~ to another word of knowledge (G1108,29x) as per {to (auto) pneuma}
{1 c} 1Cor.12:10 ~ to another discernment (G1253,3x) of inspired utterances {pneu.matwn}

20. The Holy Spirit reveals{5 a} Lk.2:26 ~ it was divinely revealed (G5537,7x) [upo=under] {tou pneu.matos tou agiou} that Simeon would see Jesus before dying
{5 a} Ac.20:23 ~ from city to city {to pneuma to agion} testifies to me saying bonds & tribulations are waiting for me
{3 a} 1Cor.2:10 ~ God revealed (G601,26x) them through His {tou pneu.matos}, {to (gar) pneuma} searches all things, even the deep things of God
{1 a} Eph.3:5 ~ in other generations this was not made known, now revealed (G601) to His holy apostles & prophets [en=in] {pneu.mati}

21. The Holy Spirit spells it out for us{5 a} Heb.9:8 ~ {tou pneu.matos tou agiou) makes it plain (G1213,7x){3 J} 1Pet.1:11 ~ prophets kept on searching what or what sort of time {to (in them) pneuma} of Christ was-making-evident (G1213), witnessing-beforehand about the sufferings for Christ

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

Here is Picture-Perfect PROOF-of-the-TRUTH ~ with Portrait chart references {in brackets}.

1. The Holy Spirit hears / understands (true listening is a vital part of communication, for God & man)
{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias}, HE will guide you into all the truth, ...what things HE hears (Strong's #G191, found 437x) HE will speak, & HE will declare to you the things coming
{5 a} Jn.16:14 ~ that one will glorify Me, because He will receive (G2983,263x) from what is Mine & will declare it to you
{5 a} Jn.16:15 ~ that is why I said He receives (G2983) from what is Mine & declares it to you
{cf} Jn.3:11 ~ most truly I say to you, what we know we speak & what we have seen we bear witness of, but you people do not receive (G2983) the witness we give
{cf} Jn.3:32 ~ Jesus bears witness, but no man is receiving (G2983) His witness
{cf} 1Cor.2:14 ~ physical man doesn’t receive (G2983) things of {tou pneu.matos} of God, it is foolishness to him; not able to know, because spiritually it is discerned

2. The Holy Spirit consults (fundamental part of relationship in the Godhead)
{cf} ~ Jn.5:19 ...The Son cannot do a single thing of His own initiative Himself
{5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ~ The Spirit of Truth {to pneuma ths alhtheias} will not speak of His own impulse Himself
{cf} ~ Jn.5:19 ...

ou dunatai o uios poiein af eautou {5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ... ou gar lalhsei af eautou

3. The Holy Spirit initiates (fundamental part of communication)
{5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ~ The Spirit of Truth {to pneuma ths alhtheias} [could, but] will not speak of His own impulse Himself [until conferring]

4. The Holy Spirit wills (choosing how, what, & when to communicate / do)
{3 a} 1Cor.12:11 ~ all these things the one & {to (auto) pneuma} performs, making a distribution to each one as it wills (G1014,34x)
5. The Holy Spirit searches (examines) (thoroughly researches His response)
{3 a} 1Cor.2:10 ~ God revealed them through His {tou pneu.matos}, {to (gar) pneuma} searches (G2045,6x) all things, even the deep things of God

6. The Holy Spirit mulls / thinks / favours (before communicating His conclusions & decisions)
{ctx} Ac.15:25 ~ we have favoured (G1380,63x) choosing men to send to you together with our loved ones, Barnabas & Paul
{5 a} Ac.15:28 ~ {tw pneu.mati tw agiw} (& we ourselves have) favoured (G1380) adding ...these necessary things
{ctx} Ac.15:25 ~

edoxen hmin genomenois omoqumadon {5 a} A15:28 ~ edoxen gar tw pneu.mati tw agiw kai hmin

7. The Holy Spirit loves (revealing the basis of His communication / actions)
{2 a} Rom.5:5 ~ the love (G26,116x) of God has been poured out into our hearts through {pneu.matos agiou}, which was given us
{3 a} Rom.15:30 ~ I exhort you through the Lord of us Jesus Christ & through the love (G26) of {tou pneu.matos}
{3 a} Gal.5:22 ~ fruitage of {tou pneu.matos} is love (G26), joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith
{1 a} 2Tim.1:7 ~ God didn’t give us {pneuma} of cowardice; but of power, love (G26), & soundness of mind

8. The Holy Spirit shares (communion / fellowship) (revealing His openness & willingness to communicate, bless, & gift us)
{3 a} 2Cor.13:14 ~ the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ & the love of God & the sharing (G2842,20x) {tou agiou pneu.matos} be with all of you
{1 a} Phil.2:1 ~ if any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any sharing (G2842) of {pneu.matos}

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

Here is Picture-Perfect PROOF-of-the-TRUTH ~ with Portrait chart references {in brackets}.

1. The Holy Spirit hears / understands (true listening is a vital part of communication, for God & man)
{5 a} Jn.16:13 ~ when that one arrives, {to pneuma ths alhtheias}, HE will guide you into all the truth, ...what things HE hears (Strong's #G191, found 437x) HE will speak, & HE will declare to you the things coming
{5 a} Jn.16:14 ~ that one will glorify Me, because He will receive (G2983,263x) from what is Mine & will declare it to you
{5 a} Jn.16:15 ~ that is why I said He receives (G2983) from what is Mine & declares it to you
{cf} Jn.3:11 ~ most truly I say to you, what we know we speak & what we have seen we bear witness of, but you people do not receive (G2983) the witness we give
{cf} Jn.3:32 ~ Jesus bears witness, but no man is receiving (G2983) His witness
{cf} 1Cor.2:14 ~ physical man doesn’t receive (G2983) things of {tou pneu.matos} of God, it is foolishness to him; not able to know, because spiritually it is discerned

2. The Holy Spirit consults (fundamental part of relationship in the Godhead)
{cf} ~ Jn.5:19 ...The Son cannot do a single thing of His own initiative Himself
{5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ~ The Spirit of Truth {to pneuma ths alhtheias} will not speak of His own impulse Himself
{cf} ~ Jn.5:19 ...

ou dunatai o uios poiein af eautou {5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ... ou gar lalhsei af eautou

3. The Holy Spirit initiates (fundamental part of communication)
{5 a} ~ Jn.16:13 ~ The Spirit of Truth {to pneuma ths alhtheias} [could, but] will not speak of His own impulse Himself [until conferring]

4. The Holy Spirit wills (choosing how, what, & when to communicate / do)
{3 a} 1Cor.12:11 ~ all these things the one & {to (auto) pneuma} performs, making a distribution to each one as it wills (G1014,34x)
5. The Holy Spirit searches (examines) (thoroughly researches His response)
{3 a} 1Cor.2:10 ~ God revealed them through His {tou pneu.matos}, {to (gar) pneuma} searches (G2045,6x) all things, even the deep things of God

6. The Holy Spirit mulls / thinks / favours (before communicating His conclusions & decisions)
{ctx} Ac.15:25 ~ we have favoured (G1380,63x) choosing men to send to you together with our loved ones, Barnabas & Paul
{5 a} Ac.15:28 ~ {tw pneu.mati tw agiw} (& we ourselves have) favoured (G1380) adding ...these necessary things
{ctx} Ac.15:25 ~ edoxen hmin genomenois omoqumadon {5 a} A15:28 ~ edoxen gar tw pneu.mati tw agiw kai hmin 7. The Holy Spirit loves (revealing the basis of His communication / actions)
{2 a} Rom.5:5 ~ the love (G26,116x) of God has been poured out into our hearts through {pneu.matos agiou}, which was given us
{3 a} Rom.15:30 ~ I exhort you through the Lord of us Jesus Christ & through the love (G26) of {tou pneu.matos}
{3 a} Gal.5:22 ~ fruitage of {tou pneu.matos} is love (G26), joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith
{1 a} 2Tim.1:7 ~ God didn’t give us {pneuma} of cowardice; but of power, love (G26), & soundness of mind

8. The Holy Spirit shares (communion / fellowship) (revealing His openness & willingness to communicate, bless, & gift us)
{3 a} 2Cor.13:14 ~ the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ & the love of God & the sharing (G2842,20x) {tou agiou pneu.matos} be with all of you
{1 a} Phil.2:1 ~ if any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any sharing (G2842) of {pneu.matos}

24

Challenge #2 (40 Ways) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

narkissos wrote: "a better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the holy spirit it presents.

this calls for literary rather grammatical analysis.

" ~ ok, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that .

4examp

Narkissos wrote: "A better method imo is to consider each work separately and see what "portrait" of the Holy Spirit it presents. This calls for literary rather grammatical analysis." ~ OK, let's take his approach & examine the clearly documented notion that

Multifaceted, Complex-COMMUNICATION is a Prominent Characteristic of The Holy Spirit. The WT agrees, but attempts to explain Scripture away, via a point that refutes their own acknowledgment !!!
"While some texts refer to the spirit as 'witnessing,' 'speaking,' 'saying' things, [true, see #10 to 39] other texts make clear that IT spoke through persons, [true, see #30,31,32,33] having NO PERSONAL VOICEOF ITS OWN." [false, see #35,36,37,38,39]
(Insight p.1020, & Aid p.1543)

The Challenge: Do you agree that the above quote is blatantly & factually untrue?

40 Ways The Holy Spirit COMMUNICATES
1. hears / understands (true listening is a vital part of communication, for God & man)
2. consults (fundamental part of relationship in the Godhead ~ God is One)
3. initiates (fundamental part of communication ~ consults, then initiates / wills)
4. wills (choosing how, what, & when to communicate / do)
5. searches (examines) (thoroughly researches His response)
6. mulls / thinks / favours (before communicating His conclusions & decisions)
7. loves (revealing the basis of His communication & actions)
8. shares (revealing His openness & willingness to communicate, bless, & gift us)
9. comforts (revealing His desire to minister to us, not just communicate through us)
10. intercedes (pleads) (revealing His care & support for the battles in / for our lives)
11. hyper-intercedes (pleads) (revealing His intense care)
12. hyper-intercedes (pleads) transcendently (with wordless, Divine-Heart-to-Heart communication)
13. commissions (calls / summons)14. bears witness15. bears joint witness16. testifies17. declares18. teaches19. guides us into truth20. reveals21. spells it out for us22. reminds23. warns24. forbids25. helps us pray26. helps us pray & praise via tongues27. helps us communicate love
28. speaks through dreams29. speaks through visions30. speaks through humans31. speaks through humans, giving prophecy32. speaks through humans, giving Divine knowledge33. speaks through humans, giving Divine wisdom34. speaks through Scripture (proving He is The Author of Scripture)

35. speaks directly (with His Personal Voice)36. speaks directly & expressly (articulate, deliberate, distinct, emphatic, explicit, intentional, pointed, specific, unambiguous, unequivocal)37. speaks directly in responsive conversation38. speaks directly in conversation & with repetition39. invites (you to "hear" the evidence, & respond to His invitation)
40. enables us to be born in spirit, & communicate / understand spiritual things

13

Public Challenge #1 ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDhun / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp in

"the wt conclusion is intellectually dishonest & deliberately deceitful in that the wt is only telling you 4/5 of the truth.".

my mistake.

the sentence should say "1/5 of the truth".. .

4examp

Hi BTS. You wrote: "Welcome to the board, 4examp. Greg Stafford does not frequent this board. But thanks for the thread."

Txs 4 the welcome.

I recently sent this material directly to Greg (& Jason & Fred).

You can assume that their conclusion (perhaps reluctantly) agrees with Narkissos.