the active jw's watching tv tonight will be surprised when they see themselves in the spotlight.
how do you think the average jw will react when watching the program?
will they think that it's all lies, or do you think they will believe a good part of it?
Halfway through the fifth estate... wow... it's really really good.... this is going to rock the WT world for sure... no doubt about it... it's well done... it's very straightforward and it's very credible... wonderful stuff
The vcr is just a rollin!
Inq
ok, with all this talk about beliefs and whatnot i thought this might be a good post.. i have addressed it before but i think i can make it clearer now.. it kind of comes down to this: there's no such thing as a true thoughts, but all thoughts are real.
all thoughts are real simply in that you're having the thoughts - even if it's not true, it is true that you are having a thought.
more mind?
Hi Intro...
Yes, I was a JW, for about 10 years... I've been out since 97 (wahoo!) I'm glad to be out... free at last... that kind of thing... I've been coming to this site for some time now and I used to post at H20...
I still enjoy coming to the site and checking things out... I don't post often but when something catches my fancy... I reply... I guess you caught my fancy... hahahahah... I relate to your way of writing your thoughts out and I enjoy your candor... I adore good humour and usually reply with it.. although sometimes I just tell it like I see it... I'm never nasty though.. .I don't think it's necessary...
I've been checking out krishnamurti's works lately.. and I find the subject quite interesting... the whole premise is something I haven't explored yet... and you as well as Sidd... seem to be along those lines..
hope that suffices as a story...
Toodles for now
Inq
ok, with all this talk about beliefs and whatnot i thought this might be a good post.. i have addressed it before but i think i can make it clearer now.. it kind of comes down to this: there's no such thing as a true thoughts, but all thoughts are real.
all thoughts are real simply in that you're having the thoughts - even if it's not true, it is true that you are having a thought.
more mind?
Hi Undecided....
roflmao... you and intro gave me the best start to my day I've ever had... thanks sooooooo much....
Inq
ok, with all this talk about beliefs and whatnot i thought this might be a good post.. i have addressed it before but i think i can make it clearer now.. it kind of comes down to this: there's no such thing as a true thoughts, but all thoughts are real.
all thoughts are real simply in that you're having the thoughts - even if it's not true, it is true that you are having a thought.
more mind?
hey Introspection...
I think I love you... hahahahahah... you sure are a doll to try to explain all that in a post, and IMO you did a great job.... It's kinda like walking around outside in your underwear though isn't it? ;)
I think an interesting saying that sums up that thought is "There is no reality, only perception." Neat eh...
Toodles for now love
Inq
having made the somewhat selfish decision to minimize my wts research, it has been necessary for me to attempt several generalizations and summaries for the sake of personal closure.
this investigative process consumed approximately two of my years and i'm approaching my oh-so-sought-after final statement, for my own finality and for anyone who may also have interest.
because i consider many of you my friends i felt it appropriate to ask your opinion and comment.
Hi... love the question....
I too became completely engrossed in study after finding out the troof bout the truth... and I spent a couple of years compelled to dispell as much of the WTS bullsh*t as I could. It can become quite consuming, but I got over it, and I've moved on.
The one descriptive word that comes to mind when I think of all involved with the WTS is WASTE. I think that one word describes the entire escapade. It's unfortunate, but that was my immediate thought to your question.
I like the other answers too....
Inq
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what is the purpose of moral dilemmas?
do they point us to god or to ourselves?
Hi Sidd:
Disappointed? Why? What?
Inq
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what is the purpose of moral dilemmas?
do they point us to god or to ourselves?
Hey there Introspection....
LOL... you started my day off with a good giggle :) .. thanks bud... I know what you mean... and thanks so much for explaining... lol...
Sidd: Are you looking for followers?
Have a good one today!
Inq
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5876608%255e662,00.html.
ram butts bible man.
by christopher salter.
I gotta say that this is one of the funniest things I have ever heard!
And it's a perfect punch line... the goat is named Sh*t for brains.... ahahahahahahahahahhahah
Inq
Laughing my ass off class
Edited by - Inquiry on 22 January 2003 12:32:54
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what is the purpose of moral dilemmas?
do they point us to god or to ourselves?
Hi Introspection
You said: Well, I'm not sure what dualistic thinking sounds like to you, but it sounds to me like the definition you provided:
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.... Dilemma - 1. a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives. 2. any perplexing situation or problem. 3. a form or syllogism in which the major premise is formed of two or more conditional propositions and the minor premis is a disjunctive proposition, as "If A, then B; if C then D. Either A or C. Therefore, either B or D.
I have to disagree with you there...dualistic thinking is different from a dilemma, according to theosophical and philisophical authorities. The difference is subtle, but significant. The nature of the "dilemma" about the doctor/patient is not about dualistic thinking. There is no choice between good and evil, there is only the undesirable outcome. Not good, not evil. I agree with you when you say "shit happens in life, you're not always gonna get what you want," I personally beleive the thing is what it is... nothing more. Dualistic thinking would really come into play if the mother got to decide, then there would be a dualistic choice, (ie: The mother may wish the survival of her child over herself, or herself over her child.) but because the doctor acts on the circumstances at hand... no desirable outcome can be achieved and no dualistic choice is made.
And, all this is subject to your point of view... *deep breath and heavy sigh* :)
Dualism - 1. the state of being dual or consisting of two parts; division into two. 2. a. (in metaphysics) any of various theories holding that reality is composed of two mutually irreducible substances. b. (in epistemology) the view that substances are either material or mental. 3. a. the theological doctrine that there are two eternal principles, one good and one evil. b. the belief that humans embody two parts, as body and soul.
Dualistic - 1. of, pertaining to, or of the nature of dualism.
I hope my reply to Sidd above is helpful in responding to the rest of your post.
;) talk with ya later...
Inq
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what is the purpose of moral dilemmas?
do they point us to god or to ourselves?
Hello again Sidd - you said: Inquiry, your right about assumptions and limitations. When I framed the question I assumed "dilemma" presupposed a "chooser" and that the chooser had an internal moral system not unlike that of the ordinary Jehovah's Witness. The point about God creating the dilemma is a misunderstanding in that I posed that question rehtorically and not as a fundamentalist. Krishnamurti goes beyond Existentialism in that he goes beyond "thought" and that is what I am preaching. Your post is very interesting from several standpoints .
For the benefit of those who don't know what we're talking about here, I'll let Krishnamurti speak for himself.... I think these are relevant quotes... Sidd should know why...
"
When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind." - Krishnamurti, Oct 1980Also note:
"As I have said, I have only one purpose: to make man free, to urge him towards freedom, to help him to break away from all limitations, for that alone will give him eternal happiness, will give him the unconditioned realization of the self. " Krishnamurti - Truth is a pathless land
"This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this: not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality. " - Krishnamurti, Truth is a pathless land
"This understanding is necessary because your belief has not transformed you but only complicated you, and because you are not willing to face things as they are. You want to have your own gods-new gods instead of the old, new religions instead of the old, new forms instead of the old-all equally valueless, all barriers, all limitations, all crutches. Instead of old spiritual distinctions you have new spiritual distinctions, instead of old worships you have new worships. You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else; and although you have been preparing for me for eighteen years, when I say all these things are unnecessary, when I say that you must put them all away and look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few." - Krishnamurti, Truth is a pathless land.
The next question... does Krishnamurti beleive in God? From his Collected Works Volume 1
Questioner: Have you no faith whatever in the power of Divinity that shapes the destiny of man? If not, are you then an atheist?
Krishnamurti: The belief that there is a Divinity that can shape man is one of the hindrances of man; but when I say that, it does not mean that I am an atheist. I think the people who say they believe in God are atheists, not only those who do not believe in God, because both are slaves to a belief.
You cannot believe in God; you have to believe in God only when there is no understanding, and you cannot have understanding by searching for it. Rather, when your mind is really free from all values, which have become the very center of ego-consciousness, then there is God. We have an idea that some miracle will change us; we think that some divine or external influence will bring about changes in ourselves and in the world. We have lived in that hope for centuries, and that is what is the matter with the world-complete chaos, irresponsibility in action, because we think someone else is going to do everything for us. To discard this false idea does not mean that we must turn to its opposite. When we free the mind from opposites, when we see the falseness of the belief that someone else is looking after us, then a new intelligence is awakened in us.
You want to know what God is, what truth is, what eternal life is, so you ask me, Are you an atheist or a theist? If you are a believer in God, then tell me what God is; I say the man who describes what truth or God is, to him truth does not exist. When it is put in the cage of words, then truth is no longer a living reality. But if you understand the false values in which you are held, if you free yourself from them, then there is an ever-living reality.
I hope I've made my point.
Thanks for the exercise,
Inq
added space at the bottom... salutation didn't show up...
Edited by - Inquiry on 22 January 2003 12:8:24
