Dave was the Australian Branch Overseer at one time. He did have an office and printing business near the old Strathfield Bethel offices. When the New facilities was built at Denham Court NSW it was known that he used to brew his own beer in a shed down on the farm property. One night he was pulled up and booked for drink driving. Because of his position it had to be seen that he was not above every one else and was Dfd. Unfortunately, from what I was told, his use of alcohol lead to an an early death due to alcohol related problems
Posts by Ben57
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37anyone writing about Dave Madzay obviously never new him!!!!!!!!!!!!
by donna4174 ini am writing because i am tired of people talking about rumours that they heard about dave madzay,he was the kindest , most intelligent man i ever new, yes he was df but only jehovah can judge him for things he did, no one else.he was an elder very high up in bethel who gave the most wonderful talks, helped many people,brought a lot of people into the truth and yet when he died not one jw attended his funeral.
how sad that a man who was so high up in bethel could be treated like this...........i was brought up in the truth until i was 15 , and turned away because of how dave was treated, even though dave had jehovah in his heart right up until his last breath and did everything he could do to be reinstated but sadly never was.........................i know i knew him
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
leaving_quietly think about it carefully some of the things that you wrote in line with the Bibles council.
When and if an elder stops and thinks very carefully about a person I am am sure some elders do, then they might actual remember a point that the one under consideration may not actually meet all the requirement. He is just using his memory and knowledge of what the holy spirit has had written in the Bible. There is nothing supernatural about that Point 3 shows a jogged memory.
Point 4 only works if the brother is honest. Reading some of the accounts on the thread about who on this forum is or was an elder shows that Many that wrote there accounts there showed that they were not honest when that question was asked.
The holy spirit does not jump up and come into play. It works only in the way that the people are honest or that some one just happens to remember something from the past. That is not the holy spirit in operation.
Come on now people get real and use your God give powers of reason none of those quotes that have been given show that the holy spirit (apart form what one knows from the Bible) has any active roll in the sense of a]getting up and doing something. The active roll is simply in people remembering what is already said and then applying what has been said in the Bible
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
wasblind you quoted form the reasoning book page 384
If Someone Says_____
' Do you have the holy spirit ( or the Holy Ghost ) ?'
You might reply : ' Yes, and that is why I have come to your door today '
Or you could say : ' That is what makes it possible for me to share in the Christian ministry'
Now all that is saying is that by following the direction of Bible to preach we are following the direction of the holy spirit. That is we can say “ Yes, and that is why I have come to your door today” - not because the holy spirit in some miraculous way has literally moved the individual but because that individual has read the Bible that was inspired bu holy spirit and following the direction to preach
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
A New day. I have been reading through the rest of the comments, and the more I read the more proof comes out of what I said.
My whole line of reasoning is that no one can blame the holy spirit for the failings of men. The holy spirit does not actually play any active roll other then being involved in writing the Bible. When we follow the council in the Bible we are following the holy spirit.
Look at all those quotes CAFREFUULY. The quote posted by ThomasCovenant says it
*** w01 1/15 p. 14 par. 12 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed *** This is how he emphasised the quote
''Those meeting the Scriptural requirements at the time of their appointment as overseers or ministerial servants may thus be said to have been appointed by holy spirit.''
I want to emphasise some other words in that quote “may thus be said “ SO - at the time of their appointment, it would appear to those recommending the appointment, that the in being appointed meats the scriptural qualifications. The part the holy spirit has in making the appointment is that it appears as if the man is heading the direction of the Bible. There would be men that actually dogenuinely meet the Biblical regiments. And then there would be those that have put on a false front for the power of being in authority.
pixel can see what I am saying when he said “Elders and servants are not picked by Holy Spirit guidance, but by "How-Many-Hours-You-Preach-As-Average" I know of men serving as MS's that have purposely kept they hours just below what is considered a requirement (not a scriptural one at that but a man mad one) so as not to be appointed as an elder. Others bust their boilers to meat meet the requirement
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
jonahstourguide seems to get what I am saying he gives this resent quote “"The same is true of christian overseers today, since they too are appointed on the basis of scriptural requirements inspired by the holy spirit" Where are the scriotual requirment? IN THE BIBLE. The Bible is inspired. NO MAN IS not even the GB. The GB are SELF APOINTED men to that possition.
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
drewcoul read what I said and I quote " [ on outward appearance - my words] " I put those words in [ ] and said that they were my words. When man are appointed it is imperfect men looking at imperfect men. The only real guide that they have is what they see. What do they see? the outward appearance - only what the man up for appointment wants them to see - the men making the suggestion for appointment do not know what is going on inside the mind of the one they want to "promote"
Maybe I am being to polite with what I have said but I do not think much of many elders. I know to many that see their position as one of authority. That was also mention many times on the thread about “who here is an elder” Too many of those elders that replied to thread were of the opinion the WTS taught that the holy spirit had an active roll in appoint men. I say that is rubbish. That the WTS does not teach that.
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
In the quote from w02 3/15 p.14 par.7 Christ Leads His Congregation: “ The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit. “ That is. telling us that when those men seek “ the guidance of the holy spirit.” they are not looking for some supernatural occurrence they are looking at the Bibles standards and guidelines. By praying they are making sure that they have the correct frame of mind looking to the holy spirit (Gods word) to see if the man being recommended fits (seems to fit) the requirements.
If anyone actually thinks the WTS is saying that the holy spirit actually has a say or hand in appointing someone then you are delusional. And I feel so sorry for you.
I guess that is the problem with many that are on this forum. How many have actually though the WTS teaches that, and, when things go wrong, and human imperfections pokes up its ugly head - they stumble and say to themselves " how could they be guided by this mystical holy spirit and yet make mistakes this must be a sham for how could they make a mistake if Gods holy spirit was actually having a guiding hand" and so they get all upset and run away and cry and look for some comfort from others that see only human inperfection.
Yes I am an active JW in good standing. Yes I believe in the holy spirit as it was used in creation and writing the Bible.
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
WHAT IS MEANT BY THE DIRECTION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
It simply means that they are following the Bibles the direction - that is trying to do things Jehovahs way. The Bible was written under the inspiration of the holy spirit and if they follow those guidelines they are letting the holy spirit direct them. The holy spirit has no other active part in anything at all. If there was any more involvement that that then all those men would be inspired as the Bible writers and prophets were
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93
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 ini have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
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Ben57
Look at all the information not just some. It is how the men look at the time of their appointment that matters. Ove the last 40 years I have seen many man strive to purposely produce the outward appearance of being an elder. I seen many do that, Then not long after they revive the appointment their attitudes change. The y kinw what os looked for and put on a front to achieve it. It is like Samuel looking at David’s brothers he wanted to choose the best looking son to be King. he looked at the outward appearance.
When men are recommended to a position of responsibility it is the outward appearance that motives the recommendation (in many cases it is nepotism) Very few men ACTALLY spiritually qualify as shepherds even if their outward appearance is looks scriptural
The theory sounds good. In practice it does not happen often.
*** w01 1/15 p. 14 par. 12 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed ***
Those meeting the Scriptural requirements at the time of their appointmentas overseers or ministerial servants may thus be said to have been appointed by holy spirit.
w02 3/15 p.14 par.7 Christ Leads His Congregation:
First of all, these overseers must meet the requirements set out in God’s Word, which was inspired by holy spirit.
… .. the individuals appointed give evidence of producing the fruitage of that spirit." [ on outward appearance - my words]
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6
My NWT 2013
by BluesBrother inwoo hoo .
at the meeting last week i was handed a new silver-grey deluxe bible nwt 2013. after months of them being a drooled over item only enjoyed by the elite, now they were handing them out wholesale.. i have to say that it is a handsome volume with its silver page edges, twin page marker and flexible cover .
i am not ungrateful and i say thank you watchtower since they did not ask any money and will not get a contribution.. what do i think of it ?
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Ben57
The old rendering of 1 Timothy 6:4 is closer to the original meaning of the Greek word used un that text. The KJV uses the word “doting” which is from the Greek word “noseo”. Now “noseo” means “to be ill or unsound in mind” “to be taking a morbid interest in something” In 1 Timothy the word “noseo” is in the present tense and active mood meaning something is happening right now and continuing . In the context of the verse “ , but being mentally diseased” is more accurate. The Revised NWT has watered down the meaning.
What I do not like about the RNWT is that it has removed all the brackets from added words. So now the reader can not distinguish when thoughts of the translators has been added. The KEV has added words in italics
They have also removed the capital YOU which was the plural form of you.
They continue to wrongly render the Greek word “proskuneo” as worship. Most people understand the word worship in the Bible as something one does to a God. The Greek “proskuneo” in the NT means to be kneeling or prostration to do homage to someone or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication to men and beings of superior rank. Yet they only use obeisance when the word is used in reference to Jesus.