Posts by Brocephus

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

This is not a issue; because, Dr. Tiller practiced in Kansas and it is illegal to perform an elective abortion after the 21st week in Kansas.

PEC Just when I was bragging on you? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/27/george-tiller-kansas-doct_n_180280.html

Dr. Tiller was accused or circumventing the laws to preform the abortions past the limit of Kansas law. See above link.

Regardless of if he was or wasn't I still thought you would answer the question? How could it not be an issue?

No one seems to be able to really defend the position that late term abortion of a viable fetus is not murder. I won't push yall anymore but

all of you have failed to convince me my feelings are wrong. Better luck next time.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

I don't know the answer to most of your questions, Sammieswife.

Seriously can you not read the question? I am not asking if the killing of this D octor was right or wrong, or why people are the way they are.

I am asking for the last time I promise:

Is Late Term Abortion murder? If not why?

Why can't you just answer the question Sammieswife? You keep talking about everything under the sun but the question. I seriously want to know. Your platitudes and sterotypes are not telling me anything about what you believe or think. I want to know how someone who sees this differently than me came to the conclusion. Or did you only come to your conclusion because you decided Pro-Lifers were bigger A--holes that Pro-choiers? We get it you think Pro-Lifers are jerks but what about your answer to the question? Please see PEC's post for an example of answering a direct question if you need an example. Unlike the Watchtower the answer is not the third sentence in this paragraph. You will have to synthesize and answer of your own. Good luck!

And trying to stay unemotional but you don't really think soldiers wake up and with the intention of killing children? If your answer is yes that may explain your difficulty grasping a simple question.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

PEC I appreciate you sharing with me your thoughts on why a late term aborition is not murder. Religous or moral principles aside I think chosing between the mother or your child and your child would be torture. On one hand I could be inclined to agree with you but on the other it seems unnatural to not sacrifice the older generation for the next. But what about if the procedure is purely elective, a matter of contraception and convience? Should terminating a fetus that could be viable at 5 1/2 months still not be considered murder? Regardless, it gives me something to think about.

Sixofnine I am not sure if the "you aren't alive till you poop" theory is serious or not. Due to the scarcity of other arguments I will treat as sincere. When I think about it, there is something that makes sense. But, I am not sure if the poop theory holds for me in the end. At 5 1/2 months the fetus is not "pooping" but it is considered viable. It can be removed from the womb in a C-section and birthed or it can be disected and removed through an abortion. If it "poops" or not would not necessarily indicate life or not to me considering those facts.

It has been assumed by posters on this thread that I am a "prick" "fundamentalist" "Rush Limbaugh supporter" "Bible Thumper", just becuase I shared some feelings about a news story and asked a serious question. If you disagree with my "feelings" that is fine, I never expected any to agree. However please notice I have managed to support my position and feelings with logic and facts. I never mentioned "sin", "Jesus" , "Rush Limbaugh" or the "Bible" I found Justitia's comment about college funny as I was beginning to think I was the only on this board that went to college.

Sammieswife gets half credit. She managed to articulate that she clearly did not believe late term abortion was murder but went on to bash Bill Oreilly which has nothing to do with my question before giving her logic. I don't like Bill Oreilly either and he would be a bad person for me to ask why a late term abortion is not murder. He clearly supports the other side!

The rest of you have failed Professor Brocephus' exam today. One of the things you are made to do in college is sucessfully argue for an issue with which you do not agree personally. It teaches detatchment and reasoning which makes you a stronger debater for something you do believe in, hopefully. My intention was not to educate anyone. However, I was dissapointed. The JW's really screwed us by talking us out of college.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

I applaud PEC and Journey-on for actually having the balls to have a rational discussion about this. I am really surprised at how many of you choose to just insult and name call me instead of discuss a serious topic.

Sammieswife and GommitsK I give you honorable mention. Sammieswife came real close to being honest and intellectual when you said it's a quantum lead to compare defending a unborn fetus from an abortion doctor to defending a loved on from an attacker. You restated my point in a way.

I agree this shooter made that "quantum leap" in his head somewhere. As Journey-on stated the shooter was so repulsed by the abortions he was right in his own mind. To bash the shoorter or the Doctor as a cold blooded killer is to over simplify a serious matter and ignore the root cause. My question was simple, "Please tell me how late term abortions are not murder?". I indicated I have a lot of emphathetic feelings for the shooters feelings and thinking not his actions. You remind me of the Elders at the KH, bashing me for asking an honest question. Instead of taking the opportunity to be reflective or convincing most of the posters choose to be insulting and trite. It is scary to me how quick a lot of you are to insult and name call when all I was asking for was an honest and mature discussion. A lot of people are here for support and it surprises me how eager some people on here were to label me as "Right wing, Repulican, Rush Limbaughite, Fundamentalist". I would ask you your evidence for calling me such but now I familiar with your logic (or lack of) there is no need to even pose that question.

As far as the issue; That is interesting Pec I would like to see the numbers on late term abortion. The reason I posed that as the question was because this Doctor worked for one of only three Abortion Clinics that would preform and Abortion after the 21st week. The state of Kansas tried him and lost last year for preforming Abortions past the limit their law allows. As far as saving women's lives, I see no indication that these were anything but elective abortions. I believe any doctor can preform a medically necessary abortion at anytime to save a mother's life. This Doctor had been Bombed and Shot before. He knew these folks were after him as they saw him as the worse of the worse. It's still hard for me to swallow a elective abortion of a 5 and half month old fetus. I would still like to hear any rational arguments as to how that is different from murder. Aren't there babies delivered now at 5 and 6 months that survive now? I am not here calling names or judging. I am not even debating if Abortion is or should be legal. I have done nothing but asked for a rational and reasonable argument to counter my initial feelings on this matter.

Isn't funny how I am the one just expressing my thoughts and being open minded, yet I am the one being called an close minded extremist bible thumper by 80% of the posters on this board. Uhhhh huh...... yaaaaaaaaaa..... some of yall have some deprogramming left to do from the bORG, I do beleive.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

Keyser: When did this become about me? Did I shoot anyone? Sure I have my personal feelings and have expressed them gently in my postings but, by no means am I saying they are anything but my personal feelings, right or wrong. What bothers me is again you all refuse to enter a logical debate and explain, how late term abortion is not murder. If it isn't then it can be proven correct? I can see very clearly how a western Kansas fundamentalist would see it as such considering I do as well. And, I am very liberal and open minded. I can furthermore see how they would see killing the doctor protecting human life. Does it mean I endorse it or condone this killing? Absolutely not it means I have the mental powers of reason and perception. So if you wish to change peoples minds stop labeling those who oppose you as terrorist or extremeist. To win a debate you need not worry about those who agree with you but those who disagree. I am honestly stating my perception of this event and topic and I get insulted. I am giving yall a chance to change my mind but most of you waste it hurling insults at me. How do you intend to do convince anyone you are right? Instead address the issue and explain how late term abortion is not murder. If someone could have changed the shooter's mind about the issue this Doctor would probably still be alive. So again, someone anyone explain it to me please. I am out of post (much to Dinah's pleasure I am sure).

OK: Dinah can you see how a crack addict would prostitute themselves or steal something for it? Can see their logic understand why they do it? Does it mean you automatically endorse that behavior of course not? Come on, if you want to be a judgmental name caller go back to the KH. The real world is for thinkers.

I guess if you want to spend 1 of your 100 post bragging about your post them go for it. Could you spend 1 honestly and intellectually answering my question or are you content to name call?

Gromit: Again out of post.. But I read your last one. I applaud your effort to use logic and fact and I agree with the basis of what you say. I apologize if you feel like I am talking down to you. This is a debate and I am treating it logically not sensitively, nothing personal. I would tend to agree Abortion is a moral choice that the law allows us to choose. Personally I see nothing wrong things being that way. As I believe we will all be judged right or wrong by the Creator. I could be wrong or I could be right but unlike Dinah I don't think because I "feel it" means it's right. Her feelings tell her I am a prick so she feels she is right, right enough to call me on this board. I feel a lot of things about her, but I don't think it would be right for me to call her those things. She is probably a nice woman, therefore my "feeling" doesn't mean something is what I "feel" it is. The fact that I can feel, understand and even emphathize with the shooter doesn't make what he did right or make my views right. I am being honest, sorry if yall can't tell the difference. I am giving yall a chance to change my mind.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

GromitSK: I never said I was right, did I? The US government doesn't think I have the right buy more than 2 boxes of sudafed because the DEA thinks I could build a meth lab. Does that make it right or wrong, no it only makes it legal or illegal. Do you understand the difference? I don't disagree that Abortion is legal and Roe V Wade has been upheld by the Court. That is factual, I would be insane to argue otherwise.

The last Gallup poll concluded that 51% of Americans oppose abortion while 42% support abortion rights. Last time I checked 51% is a majority but regardless that does not change the legality of abortion. I concede that working with the legal system is the civilized way to change Abortion law. But your logic is flawed to say that because something is legal a majority must support that measure. I am sure 99% of Americans disagree with the Income Taxes they pay that doesn't make them legal or illegal. So again, anyone wish to tell me how late term abortion is not murder? I am still listening, patiently waiting.....

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

OK KEYSER, please explain to me how late term abortion is not murder? I am listening. Please research exactly what a late term abortion is before you begin or you might have difficulty with the details. And as far as killing someone trying to hurt others or committ even a felony like Rape or Armed Robbery is perfectly legal hear in Texas by any citizen where I live.

Dinah: Are you offended my the thought or the coarse language. I will edit it for you and beg of your pardon. However if it's the sentiment then why don't you tell me why you disagree instead of name calling?

I am going to have to ask people to read AND think about my words than make sentences that make thoughts before you post please.

GromitSK? When did I try to pursuade anyone to adopt a violent method? I have done nothing but say I disagree and think the killer should get prosecuting and what ever a judge or jury gives them. That doesn't mean I have to feel sorry for the Doctor does it? Personally I think he got what was coming to him as well. My feelings don't change to logical merits of the argument that everyone refuses to discuss.

Do you think it is Murder to shoot someone trying to stab your mother to death?

I would and I have never seen anything wrong with using lethal force to protect my life or anyone elses. Neither does the law in most places either. My point is this person obviously has stretched that concept to include an unborn life. So my question stands to those who support late term abortion. I think this is a worthy topic of intellectual and honest debate. Someone at some point had to critically think about slavery, right? What is the harm in discussion or are some of us regressing to are JW days?

The killer obviously felt that abortion was a similar act. Therefore I again ask the question I did in my previous post, should anyone have the nerve to argue for late term abortion. I am not going to type it again, you can look at my post and read it if you wish.

Again no one wishes to discuss logically and unemotionally the real issue I present in my earlier post.

1

DFW Dallas Fort Worth meetup?

by Brocephus in

i am working on putting a dfw meetup group together.

current beliefs or affiliations not important, just a support group of other x-jw's.

email [email protected] if you are interested.. thanks gayle.... i started a group on meetup just now.

Brocephus

I am working on putting a DFW meetup group together. Current beliefs or affiliations not important, just a support group of other X-JW's. Email [email protected] if you are interested.

Thanks Gayle...

I started a group on meetup just now

http://www.meetup.com/DFWXJWSUPPORT/

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

Uhh Keyser: Most cultures that believe lethal force is ok to prevent murder to not see that act as murder. It's called just plain killing or man slaughter. So if that was your belief system then no you would not be a hypocrit. You would only be a hypocrit if you believed lethal force to protect innocent life was wrong but still chose to use it. Sorry to go all logical on you and make sense.

Abortion is a argument with few winners. But I will say the Pro-Lifers are more vocal in their arguments and I get bored of hearing them too. One argument I don't here from Pro-Choice folks is: Why Abortion is not murder? I know the Pro-choicers are quick to say it's a violation of their rights. Fine I give you that. Let's say the constitution gives you the right to kill your unborn child. But, does anyone have the intellectual honesty or nerve to argue or explain to me exactly how a late term abortion is deferent from infanticide? I would love to hear why you think it is not such. I won't personally attack any one, just looking for an honest logical argument for late term abortion? I have yet to hear one.

Remember slavery was once very legal and endorsed in the constitution. It only changed because someone made a good argument against it. Simply attacking the slaveowners as "racist honkies" didn't cut it, I promise. Please make your case... I am listening.

129

Religious Fundamentalist Terrorist Strike Again?

by Justitia Themis in

it doesn't appear police know the motive for this shooting, but it seems there is a high chance it is religous terrorism.

this doctor has repeatedly put his life on the line to fight fundamentalism.

abortion provider dr. george tiller killed at church.

Brocephus

To Sammies wife: Would you shoot a man about to hurt your child? Obviously in this shooters mind they were preventing the death of innocents. If you see abortion as murder and believe lethal force is reasonable to protect innocents, then wah lah there is your logic. Not saying it is right but from that perspective it is very logical. It would be interesting to see what I jury would decide if the killer is apprehended and uses this defense.

To Justitia: The Civil Rights movement was full of many matyrs and not just ones you have heard of like MLK. Many ordinary folks were shot, beaten and drown to death protesting and attempting to legally and peacebly fight for racial equality. It was noble and I hope they felt it was worth paying the ultimate price. Personally I don't think the right to kill unwanted babies falls in such a noble category. I believe in responsiblity: Being responsible for the babies you make and being responsible for the laws you break. So for me it's a two wrongs doesn't make a right situation. The killer should be held responsible under the law for his actions today. But I will never feel sorry for a man that killed 60,000 babies and was proud of it. I feel bad too for all the emoitional and spiritual trauma the women that thought this was the only choice have suffered. I go back to my point, just because I have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. I have a legal write to drink a gallon of whiskey every morning but it doesn't mean I should or that there aren't serious spiritual, emotional and physical consequences to doing so.

Many of these babies killed in late term abortions could be delivered as well? Do you not think this goes beyond the issue of contraception?

Just to clarify that I am not a robot on this issue. I see no problem with Ru-486 (the morning after pill) or all other forms of contraception I know of. If you don't know what late term abortion is, I suggest you google ans see what we are talking about.