I was just wondering, has there been a paper done on this topic? It would no doubt be useful to have all the information organized for better understanding of the typical pattern one experiences. (but not as a "Ooo, I got that!" list) I'm hoping to hear from a sister (now in a different sense) who's a therapist that used to be JW, I will let everyone know if she has something..
Introspection
JoinedPosts by Introspection
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Symptoms of those leaving the WTS
by Introspection ini was just wondering, has there been a paper done on this topic?
it would no doubt be useful to have all the information organized for better understanding of the typical pattern one experiences.
(but not as a "ooo, i got that!
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Open discussion on spirituality
by Introspection ini'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate forum, though it's still not entirely on topic.. i was just wondering how many out there would be interested in discussing spirituality beyond an exclusively biblical dialogue, it would seem that there's atleast a few.. here's a thought.. apocalyptic mindset as a form of escapism.
what do you think?
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Introspection
Well Patio, I don't know if I'd say it's so much something to hang on to, but the organization of my comparative religion class comes to mind. We were to consider each tradition in terms of it's view regarding ultimate reality, phenomenal reality, human nature and the path to fulfillment. Considering that many appears to continue as seekers, I figure perhaps the path to fulfillment would be an appropriate focus. My hope is that we can share our views equally, being open to what others can bring to it and hopefully enrich our lives in some way. How does that sound?
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Amateur Counselors & Nice "Wicked"...
by patio34 intwo observations since leaving the jws:.
1. are the elders really 'teachers'?
in the public talk they have to follow the outline provided by the wt.
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Introspection
Larc, I appreciate what you're saying. However, you yourself have said in other messages that it is important to draw on the inner resources of the individual, and that is the main point I was trying to make. Don't you agree that to the extent possible, the client should play an active role in their own healing?
Perhaps I failed to properly qualify my statements, but the original message Patio wrote does not talk about pathologies such as the ones you described. What's more, this is not the mental health forum. As you know, I am interested in becoming a therapist myself, and I am certainly not poo-pooing mental health professionals and their training. Surely you would also agree that not all therapists are created equal, it seems to me that in addition to the proper education, the person brings a lot to their practice as an individual, just as you no doubt have a unique perspective with your experience as a JW as well as the professional training you've received.
Please accept my sincere apologies if it sounded like I was dissuading the readers from seeking therapy, I do believe there are times when it is necessary. In retrospect I do see that it is rather off balanced. But to be quite honest, Larc, I do have some reservations about the profession. My impression (and it may be little more than that, I ask that you correct me if I'm wrong) is that there is too much emphasis on pathology. It seems to me there's a danger in becoming identified with your condition rather than as a human being, and I know there are others who share this view. Perhaps I sound like a naive humanist, but I would never call a person a schizophrenic, though they may have schizophrenia.
You may very well completely disagree with me on this next point, but while I agree that being compassionate isn't enough, I think it is necessary. While a lay person does not have detailed knowledge regarding specific pathologies, I think there's something to be said for the human experience. If nothing else, I think those who are in touch with their humanity can provided needed support. A doctor can make a diagnosis, but sometimes even with a physical condition support is needed after the patient leaves the office. I think this is even more important in mental health. I am only pointing out different roles different individuals can play, I have not said that we only need one to the exclusion of another.
In your message regarding the stages of denial, anger, negotiation, depression and acceptance as it applies to cult separation, you said you wanted the opinions of the experts, those who have been through this experience. If you really meant it, then according to your own words even I qualify as an expert in this area. Actually, I happen to disagree. I do feel my experience is valuable in understanding what others may be going through, but I recognize that each individual is unique. Again, this is why I feel uncomfortable associating people with their disorder. I have not gone to a specialist who deals with cult separation, (though I have sought therapy for brief periods of time, however I felt the benefits were minimal) and I am doing quite well today. I suspect I am not alone. What I said in reply to that post was out of my experience as a human being, not out of my experience as a JW, or even what I know of abnormal psychology.
So yes, I agree that if possible, people should seek professional help. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case. It would be nice if people can have the support of their families too, but we know often that isn't possible either. The therapist doesn't replace caring family members, and well meaning relatives cannot replace the skillful care a therapist is able to provide. Despite these important roles, though, I see that what we really have in common is our humanity. I guess this is what I'm thinking of as wise persons, those who understand the value of identifying with others in this way, rather than as ex-JW or whatever other labels we may place on people.
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My PT Cruiser is here
by joelbear inyay,.
just when i'm having the week from hell, my pt cruiser comes in 4 weeks early.
stay tuned for pictures on my web page.. yay yay.
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Introspection
Hah, regardless I'd like to see witnesses out in service in one of those. :)
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Time to move on
by joelbear inwell most of its been fun guys and gals.. but i'm outta here.
i am much happier thinking about other things.
i just realized that as long as i keep coming here i am still a slave of the watchtower.. big farewell hugs.
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Introspection
Good for you Joel, best wishes.
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Manic Depressive/Bipolar-Holistic Approach
by Seven inthe goal of holistic psychology in treating this disorder is to completely heal the body.
this healing process will reduce the need for medication.
once medication has reduced the amount of manic depressive symptoms, healing techniques can be applied to prevent increases in medications and start the healing process.
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Introspection
Just wanted to add a note about the concept of holism. Unfortunately, holism seems to be one of those words that's overused. To me it would be very shallow understanding to just treat different parts or aspects (mental & physical etc) of yourself. That's like saying "do everything you can", anyone who's really seeking relief will naturally do that anyways. Of course, if you give no thought to all the things you try it would be rather reckless not to mention costly in more ways than one. The idea of complementary or integrative medicine makes more sense to me. For example, you might take nutritional supplements, but it would make more sense if you develop an overall nutrition program that considers both your diet and supplements so you can see exactly what you're taking in, and supplement with what is needed. It's also a good idea to balance your nutritional intake with activity. Of course there's also mental health, and I think it would be a good idea to consider other mental activities aside from analysis of the pathology, what you might call "positive things" but really I think it's just a matter of living life. That in turn points to having support, issues dealing with socialization and so on. This may sound very similar to some holistic treatment programs, but my point is that the one being treated should have an understanding of it's integral nature, that one domain affects the other and have some idea of HOW it all works together.
In a way, I think it's a little ironic to speak in terms of "treating" holistically, because especially when it comes to mental health issues, it seems to me you really want to have the patient play an active role in their recovery.
BTW Jez: Yes it's the same thing.
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Amateur Counselors & Nice "Wicked"...
by patio34 intwo observations since leaving the jws:.
1. are the elders really 'teachers'?
in the public talk they have to follow the outline provided by the wt.
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Introspection
Well, I think these two observations are basically sides of the same coin, "practice what you preach" comes to mind. However, to be a wise teacher you have to be more than just nice or moral. It seems to me it's about compassion.
The problem with truly enlightened people is that they're not going to toot their own horn, and it takes others to recognize the wisdom is there. Not to belittle the training of professional counselors, but it's not exactly the same thing. Psychologists may be educated, but that doesn't guarantee wisdom. I guess since it really takes wisdom to recognize wisdom, though, when it comes to serious pathology one may need more support. The course of wisdom is always to be involved in your own healing, but I guess in the beginning it may be very small steps.
It's funny, when I read your second point it made me think of the times when friends and acquaintances from various religions (including JW) would say "we could really use someone like you!" One 7th day adventist said he'd make me an elder. You want to be nice, but sometimes you think: If your religion is so great and changes peoples lives, why do you need to 'recruit' people who are already there? Isn't the whole point of it (for most of them) to win over sinners?
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Open discussion on spirituality
by Introspection ini'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate forum, though it's still not entirely on topic.. i was just wondering how many out there would be interested in discussing spirituality beyond an exclusively biblical dialogue, it would seem that there's atleast a few.. here's a thought.. apocalyptic mindset as a form of escapism.
what do you think?
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Introspection
I'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate forum, though it's still not entirely on topic.. I was just wondering how many out there would be interested in discussing spirituality beyond an exclusively biblical dialogue, it would seem that there's atleast a few.
Here's a thought.. Apocalyptic mindset as a form of escapism. What do you think?
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Here's a belief.........and a question
by Flowerpetal inok......lately at the baptismal talks there is mention of those getting baptized, that from that day on, they have become ordained ministers.
jehovah gives them that ordination.
so, in order for us to be ordained ministers from god, aren't we supposed to receive the holy spirit so that when we go out preaching and teaching to others, the spirit will help us and guide us to those interested individuals?.
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Introspection
As I read this I find myself wondering if we really "receive" holy spirit in the same sense that we would "give" and "receive" love.. But as far as being born-again, I think just considering what those two words might mean should give us some clue. As we know, there are many who claim to be born-again, their basis appears to be emotional ecstasy alone. I've met people who eventually burn out, have a nervous breakdown etc. Being born-again seems to me means a profound change of the whole person, yet at the same time there is a sense of returning to an original, natural state of being. I think this is no doubt related to the idea that we're supposed to be like young children in order to enter the kingdom of God. If it is just emotional or intellectual, (and I am not saying the two together is all there is either) I doubt that's the real deal. It would be like those who partakes at the memorial and then later decide they're really not part of the remnant.
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Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer
by patio34 inon the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.. now, all those years i prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out.
i now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions.
prayer was helpful in that i felt i had help.
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Introspection
Hmm. I'd just like to say just a few things..
I think an important question we have to ask ourselves is ultimately, are we really looking for truth? If so, we have to consider both the "internal" and "external". If you want to believe, well, whatever you want to believe, that's something else.
Do we need to prove it to others? Do we have a knee-jerk reaction to those who try to prove it to us? I personally take it all in, consider it, but I don't feel that I have to react to it or make it personal in any way. It's just thoughts, and not even your own I might add. Excuse me for citing scripture, but I think there's some truth to the idea that peace is a fruitage of the spirit, whatever that statement may mean to you. There are "spiritual persons" out there who can hear all the arguments, understand them for what they are and it doesn't disturb them in the least, I think that kind of mind state is worth seeking, whatever your beliefs.