Introspection

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Posts by Introspection

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  4

  Why it is good to go to meetings(KH)

  by D wiltshire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a jw board:.

  from: asjiah sent: 27/05/2002 17:58 .

  i found the watchtower also very good.

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  Introspection

  Ok, so would I be correct in guessing that these quotes are posted as an alternative for ipecac?
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  42

  From JW to Pagan

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.

  i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?

  being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.

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  Introspection

  I was actually thinking about this just the other day. Although I'm not a pagan, I can see how it is the logical choice for many. After all, what besides being a JW have you been immersed in, for that matter something that's always been there? Nature. I think I see nature a bit differently than most pagans, but you certainly can't ignore nature in any case. For that matter, some atheists who pursue a study in science are also very much interested in nature, so I guess that is the common denominator.
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  25

  Do you consider yourself an ex-JW?

  by Introspection in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i'm gonna go for the direct approach here.

  it's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that is no longer.

  in some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (i'm jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. i mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we?

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  Introspection

  I believe this will address both your messages, Larc and Lady Lee.

  I said how you see life (your personal philosophy and world view) is not as important as living it, not how we live it. Of course, you might say that even if you avoid life as much as possible THAT becomes your life, but I meant that regardless of views and opinions, there's this big world out there for us to explore. If we're too caught up with our present view then we may miss out on what life has to offer, even if we did learn valuable lessons from the past. It's just a matter of not letting things get stagnant, because more of the same can get kind of boring if nothing else. It's no absolute guarantee in terms of security, either.

  So I guess I would say while we learn valuable life lessons, we are not just those lessons. I prefer to take the perspective that there are new things life has to offer, and being really open to them means we can't stick too closely to the past.

  By the way, the stuff about things being relative and having no inherent meaning wouldn't be just for the ex-JW identity, it really goes for any identity. I was only trying to point out that the JW experience isn't such a solid edifice, or that even if we think of it that way any such edifice had to be built, it's dependent upon other things.
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  25

  Do you consider yourself an ex-JW?

  by Introspection in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i'm gonna go for the direct approach here.

  it's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that is no longer.

  in some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (i'm jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. i mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we?

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  Introspection

  Hey first let me thank all of you for replying, especially those who obviously put a good deal of thought into a lengthy reply.

  I can see that for many the emphasis is on the EX part of ex-JW. Of course, fundamentally I only want to point out that definition is dependent upon the JW. After all, if you just say ex- it doesn't mean anything. But another way to look at it is that label is relative, you have to refer back to something else for it to have any meaning, and that also means it is not absolute. It has no inherent meaning, though being a JW doesn't have inherent meaning either, really.

  I'm just gonna throw this one thought out there, it just came to me while reading the replies, particularly Truman and Lady Lee's I guess. How do I say this.. Life itself is not defined, it's simply lived. We tend to take the view of our individual life, which usually means what we've done from the time we were born up until now. I would just call that thing's you've done, but not exactly your life. Granted this is using the word in a different sense, but I think it's helpful to point out that life is still out there, and in fact, in that sense it's more like you haven't really lived during the time you were a dub right? In fact, I can see how dub think might see a phrase like "living it up" in a negative light, that it would involve some kind of loose conduct or something. But what's wrong with that statement? It's not actually wrong to live is it? Anyway, I'm sure most of you live a fuller life now, and I guess that's what I was trying to point to. The question was kind of a trick question in a way, how you see life (or yourself, or whatever) isn't as important as living it.
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  25

  Do you consider yourself an ex-JW?

  by Introspection in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i'm gonna go for the direct approach here.

  it's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that is no longer.

  in some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (i'm jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. i mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we?

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  Introspection

  Well Larc, my high school graduation was a bit different, I would have waited for my diploma in the mail except everybody else seems to think it's a big deal. I can't say I was excited about the future or sad that I was leaving the past. (maybe a little glad, but I can't remember) I understand what you're saying of course, but frankly my recall isn't very good. I know I have the memory, but it's really just a memory to me now. Does any of this have something to do with what they call a Kodak moment?
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  12

  THESE ARE THE SIGNS OF THE LAST DAYS

  by In_between_days in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was talking to a reletive lately (j.w), and we had quite a discussion about my problems with the w.t - child abuse, u.n and other various scandals.. this person informed me that this proves that we are in the last days, because if people believe that there are things wrong with the organisation they will leave and many will discredit it, showing that jehovah is weeding out the goats.

  when i asked "why would jehovah allow his organisation to do things like this"?.

  he replied: "it cant be a totally good and perfect organisation, or else people will be flocking to it, what would be the point in having the test for people?".

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  Introspection

  "It cant be a totally good and perfect organisation, or else people will be flocking to it, what would be the point in having the test for people?"

  *speechless, staring at this statement for 5 minutes*

  This is like saying you go to a school where nobody knows what they're supposed to teach, and you're tested on these subjects, except none of the teachers know it.

  *shakes head for a while*

  Well, it sounds like you'll have a hard time reasoning with this person, but you can always point out the scriptures about by their fruitage you will know them. Don't waste your energy though, it's not like there's a way to reach everybody, some people just prefer to lock themselves in the bathroom and tell you there's a fire place in there.
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  10

  When did you have your first date??

  by Nicolas in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i'm 19 years old and i still don't have a girlfriends, i'm starting to think that i'm not normal.

  what is the average age for this?

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  Introspection

  Hell man, I'm 29 and it still hasn't happend yet, atleast I don't think so.. I've had friends who are girls, or women, or wh.. well, they're not whatever, they are female. But the thing is I've been in public with them, I don't think I've ever done the dinner and a movie thing or whatever you consider as a standard date. Of course, these are not people I consider "girlfriends", but to me there are lots of shades of gray. It seems often adult relationships are just implicit versions of kids saying "so you want to me boyfriend-girlfriend? Like go steady?" or something. What the hell?

  This is how I see relationships. I'm me, you're you, we're friends, we get to know each other, we become closer friends, and so on. I don't meet someone, think she's dreamy, do the meal/entertainment thing on a regular basis, wonder if she like me, come to some point where I confront my uncertainty and talk about "us", and so on. To me that's just plain silly. I think you just gotta let relationships develop, unfortunately they don't sell them at K-Mart yet. (hey, that's all I could afford)
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  25

  Do you consider yourself an ex-JW?

  by Introspection in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i'm gonna go for the direct approach here.

  it's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that is no longer.

  in some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (i'm jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. i mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we?

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  Introspection

  I'm gonna go for the direct approach here. So do you?

  It's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that IS no longer. In some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (I'm Jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. I mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we? Oh well. Thoughts?
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  9

  Individual Thought

  by jaccilynn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a few nights ago i asked two of my friends to watch the "young people ask: how can i make real friends?

  " video with me, so that i could get an objective outside opinion.

  and after watching it, we got into an hour long discussion about individual thought, the freedom of the mind, and the diffrences between personal opinions and forced opinions.

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  Introspection

  A YPA video? Sounds like an after-school special..

  I couldn't help but notice how you ended the original message: any thoughts welcome. We do get a lot of external input, not unlike number 5 in Short Circuit. But seriously, my point is that being open is nice, but technically I don't know how individual it really is.

  Of course, it seems to me that you should be consistent either way. Either let all the thoughts go, or let them all stay, or atleast have a nice balance. But the thing is whether a thought stays or not isn't really the point, it's all about what it is right? And you do have to make your own decision as to whether it is true or not, and of course that's what we're talking about.

  The whole problem as I see it is that people become identified with their thoughts, things like "I'm a Jehovah's Witness" or even I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness, or whatever. Instead of being yourself or actually changing, you end up developing this identity and protecting it. Of course, if the identity is challenged and ultimately shown to have no substantial reality behind it, then you feel like you have been broken. In reality it is just that your identity is seen for what it is, it's just this story you tell yourself. See, to me thought often creates this false self image in the first place, and that is really redundant because any image is only an image and not the real thing. So then the question is, who am I really? You've always been there, and sure having spent years as a witness, that can be seen as a part of you. But who are you? There are stories that you tell yourself (or others tell you) and roles that you play, but I think by far the most useful thing is this simple question. I think if most people - JW, Ex, or neither, honestly ask themselves this question, the answer would be that they don't know.

  Edited so I don't sound stupid
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  24

  Have your prayers changed?

  by eyeslice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a sort of follow up to "jesus- ignored, forgotten & unemployed at wts" posted by metatron.. it strikes me, that since i have re-appraised many of my religious views that my prayers have changed significantly.

  and whilst i am still an active jw, i have wondered whether my family has noticed, though they have not said anything so far.. jws prayers are not only very stereotyped (despite what jesus admonition about not using the same words, or by extension the same thoughts, over and over again) but also extremely introverted towards the watchtower society.. for example, a typical congregation prayer will include the following thoughts;.

  1. bless our congregation.

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  Introspection

  lol, right Professor, it was Ben Stiller. I actually thought of this earlier today, I always get those two confused for some reason..