By the way, just for the record I wasn't thinking specifically of that thread about depression, which is I guess what you are referring to here. I know what the thread is about but I haven't actually bothered to read all of the exchanges between the people. Part of me is tempted to not post this message just to see what kind of conclusions people jump to.. ("Ohhh, he's taking such and such a position on that issue!") I was simply addressing this topic of why people get vehement in disagreements.
Introspection
JoinedPosts by Introspection
-
8
why exjws have VEHEMENT disagreements at times
by Cyn injust a few thoughts..... i noticed that a lady named crystal posted her views.....and many people got upset....i did as well....part of me knows that taking responsibilty for my own life is important... and i have tried but also battle all my life....in fact i called to complain about the mail being late just today...and the supervisor's name is battle...to which i ( with my anaylytical bipolar mind ) reacted.......... i thought ," gee i battled allll my life but is could be taken as battle for youe life"... anyway....my original point was about why ex jws vehemently disagree... i remember when i saw and expereinced abuses in the org..and when i asked "sisters" and " brothers' for validation ( am i right or wrong?????
) some would agree then get frighetend and avoid me remember how we were warned against murmuring and how often so as not to appear unloving many people would use inuendoes or roll their eyes or play any number of mind games......( very loving that).
expressing honestly and openly was , for the most part, not safe so i think that many exjws having been repressed as to free expression are more prone to let it all out... and disagree vehemently......... just a few thoughts.
-
-
-
8
why exjws have VEHEMENT disagreements at times
by Cyn injust a few thoughts..... i noticed that a lady named crystal posted her views.....and many people got upset....i did as well....part of me knows that taking responsibilty for my own life is important... and i have tried but also battle all my life....in fact i called to complain about the mail being late just today...and the supervisor's name is battle...to which i ( with my anaylytical bipolar mind ) reacted.......... i thought ," gee i battled allll my life but is could be taken as battle for youe life"... anyway....my original point was about why ex jws vehemently disagree... i remember when i saw and expereinced abuses in the org..and when i asked "sisters" and " brothers' for validation ( am i right or wrong?????
) some would agree then get frighetend and avoid me remember how we were warned against murmuring and how often so as not to appear unloving many people would use inuendoes or roll their eyes or play any number of mind games......( very loving that).
expressing honestly and openly was , for the most part, not safe so i think that many exjws having been repressed as to free expression are more prone to let it all out... and disagree vehemently......... just a few thoughts.
-
-
Introspection
Well, self expression is one thing, having one's self concept threatened is another. I'm sure there are those that always thought a certain way and they just needed to get out for that to be expressed, but there are others who are confused as to what to think and that inevitably relates to their idea of self. One thing that is worth pointing out here is that the ideas you identify with is not going to be any more accurate because you happen to defend it vigorously, if anything that reveals your own insecurity. To me such reactions will in most cases prove to be a defense mechanism, (after all, very often you don't actually see any reasons why they disagree) not so much having to do with the issue at hand but ultimately because the unknown is a scarey place to be, and it's easier to be up in arms to defend your ideas whether they're true or not rather than face the fact that the simple truth of the matter is you simply don't know. It is more comfortable to believe in some kind of certainty than to question yourself.
-
53
Do We CHOOSE to be depressed?
by Crystal inthe answer to that question is yes!!
we always want the easy way out , a pill, a religion , a shrink to make us happy.no one can make you happy but you.start taking control of your own life and your own brain and stop depending on others.
xena posted this the other day.
-
-
Introspection
I'd like to offer an alternative view of how one might deal with depression on a cognitive level, you can consider it for yourself and try it if you think it sounds reasonable, it's up to you.
Somewhere along the line self-esteem was mentioned by Larc, I don't know what specifically was said about it, but how something is interpreted being an important factor was also mentioned. I'm going to speak to those two points.
Frankly, I don't have any use for self esteem, because to me it's just another self concept, and I'd rather see the real thing as it is in the moment rather than build up some artificial construct that's supposed to identify me and make me feel good and get me through the day. I'm sure that's not for everybody, but I mention it for a reason. This is connected with the point about interpretation. Something happens, perhaps it is something someone else did "to" us, but often times it can be interpreted in a negative way and the result is we feel depressed. Well, you might say my approach is to keep it simple and cut out all the non-essential stuff. Maybe I can interpret things in a positive way, but then that may not be what the other person intended either. (if indeed they intended anything toward me at all) So my approach is to drop interpretation and simply observe what's going on and take it in fully. Of course, in order to do that you have to drop your self concepts too, because people do tend to react from there, and largely from self esteem. "This makes me feel good, that makes me feel bad" is the common reaction. But whether it's the result of something that you had worked on or the opinion of some other person or whatever, what does that actually mean? As far as people go, I really don't care what people feel about me or whether they like me, I DO care about the reasons they might have for feeling that way, but sometimes people just don't like you. If I failed at some task miserably, then I failed at that task miserably, it doesn't mean I as a person am a failure at everything or is even bad at that task, it only means exactly what happened - I failed at that task at that time. (so the same thing applies to people, one person doesn't like you doesn't mean everybody or that you're not a likeable person) Any other interpretation is simply things we add on to it, and doesn't actually reflect the truth of what has happend. I've found that not only does viewing things this way help with depression, it makes your thinking process in general clearer too. I mean how simple can you get? Just don't make up anything, and when you do just recognize that it's just something your mind made up. Maybe this all boils down to a bumper sticker I saw the other day, which simply says "Don't believe everything you think." I think that might be a reminder worthy of being framed on a wall sometimes.
-
56
Goodbye, I Hope You All Have a Great Life
by Robdar ingoodbye everybody.
i have enjoyed my time here for the most part.
i have made some great friends and a few not so great enemies.
-
-
Introspection
See ya Robyn, message me online sometime.
-
32
WOW!!! I scored BIG at the Donut Shop!
by LDH inwell i took the little crumb-snatcher for a ride in the stroller this morning.
usually i meander over by the college with all of its big, shady trees.. well, satan himself musta been with me this morning cause i got a hankering for a donut!
i eat maybe 4 donuts a year, not my thing..... anyhow, i decide to turn for the donut shop where i choose my sin, an eclair covered in chocolate..... i turn to look at the little stack of reading material and what do i see?.
-
-
Introspection
Hey Lisa, how are you doing? Your thread reminded me of this epoisode of the TV show Millenium that was on the FOX network - did you ever see the one with the demons sitting around chatting at the donut shop?
-
4
Belief and enjoying life
by Introspection ini was thinking it must seem kind of strange for someone to hear me say belief is useless and to think less, that will likely mark me as nuts by both stereotypical camps so i thought i explain a bit.. first of all, let me say that as far as i'm concerned there is no reason to think that generally, belief, religious or otherwise can't be an honest attempt at describing reality.
however, that's the whole crux of the matter - i think it's important to distinguish between reality and one's description and model of it.
as accurate as some models may be it can never replace the real thing, certainly not when it's merely concepts in your head.. if you believe the bible, you would agree that creation reveals the glory of god.
-
-
Introspection
Hi Mamashel,
I would just say that even being uptight is a part of life, so while it may sound silly I say just be totally uptight, that is to say let yourself be as you are even if it is being uptight. I find that when you do that, it's not as big of a deal anymore and you can move on to other experiences.
-
64
Are Born Agains qualified to help JW's?
by sleepy in.
are born agains qualified to help jw's?.
i don't think so.sorry if you are one i have nothing against you personnally, nor jw's come to think of it, but offering your version of truth to jw's is for them to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.. the bible is the root of jw problems , and following that book in which ever way you wish will always be in error..
-
-
Introspection
The bible is the root of JW problems , and following that book in which ever way you wish will always be in error.
You'll always be in error? Wow that's pretty good, 100%. Where else would you get such accuracy? I mean, even if you blindly go about things sometimes you'll do something right just by accident, if there is certainty there it's worth investigating.
Of course, I could agree with that in the sense of if you follow any book, you'll be in error spiritually. That may sound like sacriledge to some, but the fact is the nature of a book is symbols written in ink on paper isn't it? It's an inanimate object, not withstanding places where it says things like the word of God is alive and exerts power. Right there you have the distinction too, one is called the bible, one is referred to as the word of God. (try not to get caught up on believing whether there is any truth to that statement, my point is there is some "live" factor) Now I'm sure many just doesn't care about that at this point, but maybe I can keep your attention by pointing to the fact that you are the one interpreting it, or as pointed out in the above quote you have to following the book. The whole thing depends upon some intelligence, the printed book is not going to miraculously take control of your mind for better or worse. You might look at it this way: You use your mind to do things, and your mind uses thoughts to do things. Sometimes talk of this type comes very close to saying thoughts use your mind to do things, which in a sense can be true but ultimately it took somebody to write it and get the stuff on paper and not to mention the preaching and all that, so if you want to blame something blame something that has some intelligence, instead of implying you were taken in by an inanimate object, which frankly just makes you look bad.
If anything you can blame the mind, and a truly honest person will take some responsibility for their own actions as an adult. (if you were raised as a witness, go ahead and blame your parents - but if that's in the past then the best you can do is blame them for most of it, if presently you are an adult that makes your own decisions) If you take the opposite side of JWs, the bible or whatever you haven't really changed, it's still one sided, it's just the other side. In fact, whenever you have some sense of "against" then you are only seeing one side of something, even if it is being against seeing things in a one-sided way. To really know the truth is a matter of seeing that the previous view was a limited perspective, but then again I guess that's not really what everybody is interested in.
-
8
Living the JW 'simplified lifestyle'
by truman inthough i haven't heard as much about this concept in the last few years, during much.
of my tenure as a jw ('74-'01) there was frequent mention in the pages of the wt urging.
witnesses to live a simplified lifestyle.
-
-
Introspection
Yeah that sounds familiar. Of course, 'keeping your eye simple' doesn't mean keeping your house or car simple or barely functional, it means not caring one way or the other. It's not whether you have or not, or what you have, but your attitude toward it. In this regard the behavior you described reveals they did not keep their eye simple.
-
-
-
Introspection
This thread appears to be broken, the link from the main page has as the subject title: " Not that I'm Famous casue I'm Not, But does . . ." rather than just the . . . .
-
34
Stigmata!
by FiveShadows inhas anyone ever seen the movie "stigmata?
" ... except for the actual stigmata..and the baptism...the message of the movie is inspired!
"the kingdom of god is inside you...and all around you.
-
-
Introspection
Good insight. We were talking about this on another ex-JW board, in looking over the Gospel of Thomas I found this part of verse 3 particularly interesting:
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty.
This is so key, because frankly if you just believe something someone else tells you then you are basically selling your soul for a belief, and in that sense you might say you live in poverty and are the poverty. After all, the one thing that you can actually say you've received from God is your life isn't it? But then people go and use their life in service of some concept, some idea. What about appreciating what you already have, the one thing that's undeniably a gift? It's not something spooky, mysterious and complicated, it's simply life.