Mary,
I don't think you know me (haven't posted that often) but please know this: My heart is with you and your family.
My love and prayers go to your sister, brother-in-law and you.
believing
believingxjw
JoinedPosts by believingxjw
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81
MY APOLOGIES TO ALL
by Mary inlooking back over the last few weeks, i think i've been unnessarily rude to some posters and i just want to apologize to anyone who has been on the receiving end of my anger recently.. i believe that i'm so angry, dismayed, devastated and heartbroken over what's happening to my brother in law, that i've been taking it out on others and that's not right.
it makes absolutely no difference what i think of the wts as a whole, or whether or not americans have a universal healthcare system......none of that makes any difference whatsoever when someone you love and has been like your brother for 35 years is dying and there's not a fucking thing we can do about it.. my sister just called me and there's more bad news, and that's that his disease has now progressed into the acute myeloid leukemia which means he cannot start the therapy they were going to give him, as this is far more serious now.
they want to start chemo right away, but his blood counts aren't up high enough for him to survive.
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148
"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."
by AllTimeJeff in"unless they know and love jehovah first.
they love "jehovah".
they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.
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believingxjw
Could someone please post the context within which the quote "Remember, nobody can really love you unless they know and love Jehovah first," was said?
Thanks.
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GOVERNING BODY- JEHOVAH'S ANOINTED?
by believingxjw ineach member of the governing body claims to be of the anointed.
this claim of anointing along with the appointment to a virtual apostleship position in the organization gives them the power to rule over jehovah's witnesses.
they control every aspect of worship, nothing is outside of their control even the shunning of family members is within their ability to allow or disallow along with all other matters jw.
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believingxjw
Each member of the Governing Body claims to be of the anointed. This claim of anointing along with the appointment to a virtual apostleship position in the Organization gives them the power to rule over Jehovah's Witnesses. They control every aspect of worship, nothing is outside of their control even the shunning of family members is within their ability to allow or disallow along with all other matters JW.
The Apostle Paul was also anointed as were Peter and the other Apostles. They were anointed and appointed by holy spirit to take the lead in spiritual matters. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses makes this claim of anointing and appointing for itself also, they being the representatives of all the JW anointed on earth. So, the JWs have spirit anointed and appointed older men who are taking the lead.
Peter, though, supplied miraculous proofs of his anointing. Paul did as well and not only that Paul wrote letter upon letter to the congregations and never did he tell them to go back and change something he wrote because Jehovah had provided him with new light.
Today, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot supply one proof that they are who they claim to be. Every spirit directed leader of the ancient Jews and the early Christians gave miraculous evidence that Jehovah was with them. But the Governing Body cannot. Not one miracle, not even an unchanging stream of spiritual instruction. No, not one evidence that Jehovah is with them.
But Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe that the gifts of the spirit are no longer being given, that there are other ways a Christian can recognize the true religion, God's true religion. That these other evidences are proofs of Jehovah's approval of and appointment of the Governing Body to lead his people.
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe that the growing numbers of publishers are evidence that Jehovah is with them. But if numbers were used to prove God's blessing then the Roman Catholic Church would be the most blessed. Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe that persecution proves they are God's people but in the eastern European countries where Orthodoxy is practiced many western Christian faiths are being persecuted as well (see the Forum 18 site) not just Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe that the worldwide preaching work is evidence that they are God's chosen people yet the Governing Body has been unable to surpass the preaching and disciple making that has already taken place around the world by other Christian faiths. Jehovah's Witnesses have for the most part only built on another man's foundation, they have been unable to penetrate in large numbers those countries whose populations are for the most part non-Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses have been trained to believe the door to door preaching work is a mark of their identity as God's people Yet, there are Baptists and other Christian faiths who go door to door with invitations to their church and they give out free Bibles to everyone who would take one. There are young Mormons who do the same devoting themselves full-time to their work.
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe they are God's people because of the love they have among themselves. Yet, almost everyday an article can be found about other Christians who are helping their own through unimaginable hardships and pain and not only that they are also helping others outside of their faith. Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe they are God's people because they are a clean people both morally and physically. My Baptist neighbors are also clean both morally and physically so are my Catholic and Muslim neighbors.
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe they are God's chosen because they do not worship a Trinity or believe in the immortality of the soul or hellfire. There are other Christian faiths who hold these same beliefs including the many active Bible Students around the world. Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe that since the Organization has taught them so many truths it must be the one true faith and must be followed and loyally trusted. Yet, the Organization again has built on the works of others who came before Russell. The Trinity, hellfire and immortal soul doctrinal questions were already being discussed among faithful Christian men decades before the first Watchtower ever came into print.
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe...they are trained to believe what the Governing Body tells them to believe without proof of anointing or even proof that the Governing Body has led them where no other Christian faith has already been.
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to be Jehovah's Witnesses that's all. They are trained to believe what every religious faith believes: that they are true religion. Without proof, just faith, not a faith in God but rather faith in men. Because if Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to believe what men say without proof of anointing then they are putting faith in men.
So the question every Jehovah's Witness should ask himself/herself is: are the members of the Governing Body truly appointed by Jehovah to lead his people? And if they are how do I know they are, what proofs of their appointment have they given me? Are they good men?, Paul was a good man. Do they teach the word of God?, Paul taught the word of God. Do they sacrifice themselves?, so did Paul. Do they direct the congregations?, so did Paul. But even so, Jehovah gave Paul and Peter miraculous proofs of their appointment, their sincere efforts to do God's will were, though good, not enough to prove to the congregations that they were appointed by God as leaders of the congregation.
In the Bible, Jehovah always provides proofs of spiritual anointing and those proofs are miraculous proofs. But Jehovah has kept quiet, he has not supplied the members of the Governing Body with the same proofs of their anointing and appointment as his representatives as he so openly and decisively gave to Moses or Jeremiah or Paul or Peter why is that? If the time of miraculous proofs has passed then so has the time of complete trust and loyalty to men or to an organization of men who cannot prove their appointment from God otherwise any man could rise up and claim to be what he cannot prove to be.
Jehovah's Witnesses: has the Governing Body been appointed by Jehovah to lead his people? Show me the proofs and I will gladly return. But if you cannot show proof then why do you follow the Governing Body to the extent that you would sacrifice your child on an altar that Jehovah himself has chosen not to show his approval of? This is idolatry.
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Are you a Binitarian?
by reniaa ini have had loads of discussion on here with so-called trinitarians that constantly refer to john 1:1 as proof of trinity!
but it only talks about the word (jesus) and the god so what happened to the holy ghost?.
if you only use proof that jesus is divine in your texts doesn't that make you a binitarian?.
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believingxjw
I also do not believe in the Trinity.
In my opinion, the whole demeanor of Jesus before and after his death was one of worship of his Father and never a claim to equality. Sure both sides have their "proof texts" but a reading of everything Jesus said and did does not reflect a Trinity but a Father/Son relationship. A father and son may have the same qualities and the same responsibilities but if we are to hold true to the terms "father" and "son" (and not add to their obvious meaning) a son is always younger than the father. A son's existence is dependent on the father's existence. If the father does not exist neither will the son. But the father's existence does not depend on his son's existence.
Was the Son always called the Son? In the Trinitarian doctrine was God the Son always the Son? Before all creation in the eternal past God the Father spoke to God the Son and God the Holy Spirit spoke to them both, one Godhead in three persons. Three individual "I AM's" in one Godhead. Each with three different functions and responsibilities, but all one. All co-eternal. The Christian church made models of the Trinitarian Godhead in order to facilitate understanding of this concept. A necessary help not an idol of course.
Yet the Jews were forbidden to make an image of God even as a help for their understanding of him. The Jews did not need to make a model of God to help them understand God. He made himself plain to them. He was their God. He was One. Unlike the other nations of their time who worshipped various gods the Jews worshipped one God. No model of him was to be made in order to worship him and no model was needed in order to understand him. He made himself known to them. He was not a mystery to them.
Yet, the Trinitarian Godhead is a mystery and has had models made of it in order to help make plain the concept. Is it just a coincidence that the Trinitarian Godhead concept came into being when gentiles (whose national and religious heritage were not based on the worship of the God of the Jews like the Apostles and early Christians had been) were in charge of doctrine? Religious philosophy was the preferred church candy after the early disciples had died off and what better candy to write about than a mystery and what better mystery could there be than God himself?
Jesus' love and humility and godship were written about and elevated in these philosophical religious works of the early church which for the most part only served to elevate the writers of those works. Men loving men who write volumes but who live lives that do not reflect the very things they write about. Millions of words written to explain what Jesus said in a few. Jesus apparently failed his disciples. He did not speak enough, he did not supply the required wordy philosophies and insights that were needed to understand him and his teachings. He fell short.
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JWs can become anointed at any time??
by lavendar insomeone in a previous thread stated this regarding the "new light" on the 1914 teaching:.
people can still become anointed at any time.. .
i'm curious (as usual).........how do these jws know they're anointed?
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believingxjw
Blueeyes54,
Thank you so much for your post.
If it's not too personal may I ask as an anointed were there some teachings in the Watchtower you felt were incomplete or needed some, shall we say, tweaking.
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Jesus - My Exemplar?
by AK - Jeff ini do not put much credence these days to the idea of a 'savior' for man, in the sense believed by christianity.
it is not of that which i speak.. i refer to the person, either literal or literary, who is credited with leaving bad religion behind, taking an unpopular stance against it's leadership, and willingly suffering the consequences that follow such course of action.
it matters not if this person can be supported as historically accurate.
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believingxjw
As a woman I truly appreciate Jesus teachings for women and his acceptance of women as disciples and fellow workers with the male disciples.
You could take his conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well and put a 21st century date on it, it fits our times so much better than his. And getting Martha out of the kitchen and into the conversation is, well, fantastic!
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Not having a paradise earth in the future makes me sad - What about you?
by BonaFide inyes, i am enjoying realizing the truth about the truth.. but there is another side to it.
the world as we know it didn't seem to me to be the way that god intended it to be.
i know i was brainwashed, but it felt good believing that all the bad things would be changed.
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believingxjw
This earth is a beautiful place and I'm so glad to be free from the narrowmindedness (sp?) of the Watchtower. I remember when I left and the first feeling that came over me was sorrow of course but then there was also this realization that yes, people, many people, can and do give good things to their fellow. That realization that there are beautiful people all over the world who would give their life to help someone and work to preserve the environment and a host of many other good things was like a window opening. The Watchtower cloak had fallen, the idea of only one true Christian faith and that all others were doomed to die had itself died and I was free and living possibly for the first time since my early childhood.
Maybe I'm greedy. I love the earth and want to help preserve it but I also hope for better days for all of us and for our beautiful planet. I think it's called eating my cake and having it too. lol
I'm so glad I'm here on this board.
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To Mouthy and All Here
by believingxjw indear mouthy and all here who love their fellow man,.
mouthy, your sincere posts and steadfast belief have been a great encouragement to me after leaving the witnesses.. to all here who love their fellow man: your posts have also been a well of water in a dry land to me.. my thanks to all here and to those who have worked hard to set us free.. .
believing.
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believingxjw
Thanks everybody. This place is truly filled with many fine and loving people.
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Not having a paradise earth in the future makes me sad - What about you?
by BonaFide inyes, i am enjoying realizing the truth about the truth.. but there is another side to it.
the world as we know it didn't seem to me to be the way that god intended it to be.
i know i was brainwashed, but it felt good believing that all the bad things would be changed.
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believingxjw
I'm new here but I'll give opinion on a "paradise earth."
I have not lost my belief in God. After the leaving the Witnesses I, like many others, started over again from the very beginning. First question: Did God exist? That was the first question I set out to answer for myself not from the Bible but by reasoning things through. To my mind it makes more sense that God exists and that he is the maker of the earth and all the stars and galaxies around us. I know many here would not agree but that's okay. We are all free to believe as we please. Feels so good doesn't it!!
I believe that God created the physical universe and he created it for a reason otherwise as a line from the movie CONTACT puts it, "that would be an awful waste of space." NASA scientists would love to visit Mars and walk on that planet and they would of course love to travel to the other side of the galaxy and so on. We have an exploring nature and someday man/woman will likely be able to do those things. I believe we will.
Do I believe in a paradise earth as the Watchtower teaches it? Heaven forbid! The Watchtower teaches a worldwide Bethel/Pattersen situation where everyone will be little publisher-like people doing everything with a smile and a please and thank-you and reading the latest edition of the Paradise Earth Watchtower which always reminds them of how great the FDS was!
But I do believe God created the earth and the milky way and he did it for a reason.
believing
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To Mouthy and All Here
by believingxjw indear mouthy and all here who love their fellow man,.
mouthy, your sincere posts and steadfast belief have been a great encouragement to me after leaving the witnesses.. to all here who love their fellow man: your posts have also been a well of water in a dry land to me.. my thanks to all here and to those who have worked hard to set us free.. .
believing.
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believingxjw
Hi Mouthy,
Thanks so much for the welcome! And my sincere thanks to all who kindly replied to my post.
To quote an old song that will date me but applies to everyone here both believers, non-believers and agnostics who want better things for our friends and family in the Watchtower and healing for those who have left:
"For United We Stand, Divided We Fall, and if Our Backs Should Ever Be Against the Wall We'll be Together, Together You and I."
My love and respect to all here.
believing