Hi Minimus,
Yes, I am for reform.
This particular thread though has to do with sin, the sin of not standing up for what they know is right before God.
IW
IslandWoman
JoinedPosts by IslandWoman
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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IslandWoman
Minimus,
I did not mean that you said they were all wicked.
I also have not used the word reform in this thread. All I was suggesting was just as you said yourself:
Now, if you are supposing that a handful of persons may do something about their "sin", I can accept that.
IW
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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IslandWoman
Bradley,
May I ask you a personal question? You do not of course have to answer.
What came first, the disbelief in God or the leaving of the JW religion?
Just wondering.
Thanks,
IW
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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IslandWoman
Minimus,
Since they're not going anywhere, NOTHING will change.
To think that men like Ray Franz, Dunlap, HS, Tom Cabeen, etc. are no longer to be found in Bethel is unreasonable. Just like Ray Franz attended Gilead for all the right reasons and served the brothers in his assignment with love and a good conscience, so also there are brothers who in the last 10 years or so have served in foreign assignments for all the right reasons and served their brothers with love and a good conscience.
The notion that all those in Org. leadership roles are wicked is as erroneous as the Org. saying that all prominent apostates are wicked. This whole black and white thinking stems from the "if you're not with us you're against us" type of idiocy. Something which I hate to say, is deeply rooted in the male psyche, JW and exJW.
IW
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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IslandWoman
He forgives us our trespasses.
Not always, and certainly not without a turning around.
IW
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23
The GB, Corporation Officers, Senior Writing Staff and James 4:17
by IslandWoman in"therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
every individual who is a member of the gb, or a corporation officer or a member of the senior writing staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before god.
you have left the love you had at first, jehovah himself.. iw.
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IslandWoman
"Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him." James:4:17
Every individual who is a member of the GB, or a Corporation Officer or a member of the Senior Writing Staff and who knows what is right yet does not do it is sinning before God. You have left the love you had at first, Jehovah himself.
IW
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264
Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson
by ros ini just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .
the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.
http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.
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IslandWoman
Alan,
LOL, what's it like for your poor wife? Does she ever win an argument? Yes, I am sure she does. It's only here you are such a pesky piece of taffy. Posting to you feels like walking in taffy, just no way to get out without some of it stuck to our shoes. lol
Now back to business:
It is not fluid for the Neo-Babylonian period. It was established many decades ago and has not changed by more than a year, in the basics, for more than three hundred years.
What I am about to post is not in any way connected to Jonsson's work only to my statement that ancient history is something which is continually being discovered and each discovery changes the picture.
Smithsonian June 2003, Saving Iraq's Treasures, Ashur, page 49
"Yet in 614 BC., the Medes-a people from today's Iran--attacked the Assyrian Empire and laid waste to fortified Ashur. Many scholars have surmised that the Medes launched a surprise attack on the city when the fierce Assyrian military was fighting elsewhere.
"But Miglus [Peter Miglus, an archaeologist at the University of Heidelberg who has excavated sites at Ashur over the past three years. pg.46] and his team, along with Iraqi and other Western researchers, have put together an alternative description of Ashur's final days. They have found an unfinished tunnel most likely built by the Medes to penetrate the city's formidable defense; that the Medes had time to build a tunnel suggests the siege was quite long. Based on his excavations, Miglus paints a stark picture of Ashur's preparations for that siege and its terrifying end. He believes the city's inhabitants converted the vast palace cellars into granaries, as if to wait out the usurpers, and that Ashurs's final hours were a chaos of street barricades, beheaded corpses and burned buildings."
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The changing scene of historical knowledge continues:
Archeology Odyssey, July/August, Plundering the Past, The Rape of Iraq's National Museum, page 19,
"One important group of tablets was found as recently as 1986. At Sippar, 20 miles southwest of Baghdad, Iraqi achaeologists discovered a nearly intact archive from the Neo-Babylonian period (625-539 B.C.). About 800 clay tablets, inscribed in cuneiform, were found still organized on their shelves. The Sippar archive included hymns, prayers, lamentations, fragments of the Gilgamesh epic (including some that fill in holes in the text we have) and other epic-like poems, glossaries, astronomical and scientific texts, missing pieces of the Sumerian flood story, and the prologue to the Code of Hammurabi, the first complete law book."
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My point was that our knowledge of ancient history is subject to change, whereas my knowledge of my appearance is not.
: The gorilla comparison was off the mark because I know what I look like.
Yes, but no one else on this board knows what you look like. For all we know, you could be a talking gorilla.
Now you are changing the parameters of our original discussion (there's that taffy again. :) You originally said:
Suppose I come up with a theory: "IslandWoman is a 500 pound gorilla."
If anyone were to make a good argument for this theory, would you acknowledge it?
In the original discussion I asked if you would acknowledge a good argument, you came back and asked me if I would acknowledge one. It was never about proving anything to others but only our own recognition of a good argument.
My appearance is known to me, the detailed facts of ancient history may or may not be fully or without a doubt accurately known. Therefore to say that no evidence will ever be found that could influence your judgment on the matter is imo just a tad prejudicial and closed minded. Weight of evidence is fine, but if all science was simply based on the weight of evidence of past theories than the earth would still be the center of the universe, the stars are still going around us aren't they? Science moves forward precisely because it challenges the weight of evidence that came before, it seeks to understand the unknown by inventing hypotheses sometimes built on the slimmest weight of evidence.
You are talking about dates. I was talking about a concept, a question: Would AlanF acknowledge a good argument even though it went against what he believed to be true? This is after all what is expected of JWs who wander in here is it not?
IW
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264
Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson
by ros ini just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .
the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.
http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.
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IslandWoman
The problem that morons like "scholar", Furuli and other Watchtower apologists have is multi-fold. First, if Watchtower chronology is correct, it would overthrow a tremendous amount of good scholarship and invalidate much of what we know about ancient history. That ain't gonna happen, any more than Newton's Laws are going to be overthrown. Suppose I come up with a theory: "IslandWoman is a 500 pound gorilla."
If anyone were to make a good argument for this theory, would you acknowledge it?
Apples and oranges. Our knowledge of ancient history is not as static as you try to assert it is in the first statement, it is more fluid. New information is always being gathered, and at times contradicts what was at one time thought to be a given. The very nature of archeology alone produces a state of flux in our understanding of the ancient past. It is as inexact as it is exact. Add to that the varying degrees of expertise and talent in that field as well as in the others involved in studying the ancient past and you have a science which is in continual evolution and discovery.
The gorilla comparison was off the mark because I know what I look like. Therefore any argument presented to support a theory which I can see with my own eyes is false, is not worthy of even the slightest consideration and would be ludicrous.
Comparing the acceptance of a good argument against Jonsson's book, something which is based on a changing science, to the acceptance of a good argument that I am a 500 pound gorilla, something which I can see with my own eyes, is therefore a faulty comparison. Ergo my strawman question.
Oh, btw. Please don't ask me to play nice, it's no fun.
IW
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264
Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson
by ros ini just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .
the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.
http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.
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IslandWoman
Suppose I come up with a theory: "IslandWoman is a 500 pound gorilla."
If anyone were to make a good argument for this theory, would you acknowledge it?
AlanF
Is this a strawman?
But hey, thanks for the compliment anyway! "500 pound gorilla", though an understatement, fits me quite well.
IW
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49
For those who ask, "why, God?"
by AGuest inmay you all have peace!
a dear one asked me some questions recently, including why god isn't... doing "anything"... and what is he doing.
for reasons of confidentiality, i will not name the person, but i am going to post some parts of our discussion, because i think it may put some things into "perspective" for some who truly wish to know:
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IslandWoman
SJ,
And how did those before me make such proof? Was it not based on their claim?
There are a bunch of men in Brooklyn who claim to be appointed by God.
There are a bunch of men in the Vatican who also claim to serve God and speak for him.
Like you they would like their followers to believe that just their claim is good enough. Sorry that does not cut it.
Are you SURE you want such proof? Because IF you would take a moment to read the accounts... you would find that whenever such proof was DEMANDED... it usually did not come as the people... expected. The ONLY time it came... ummmm... peacefully... is when the people did NOT demand proof... but walked... WITH FAITH. (bolding mine)
LOL, Yes Woman! Show me proof from your God! Strike me with leprosy, let the worms eat me up, turn my blood to water........what a ridiculous crock.
Sure SJ, call upon your god to show me ......ummmm peacefully or not babe, I do not fear Satan.
When it comes to prophets, works are paramount, continuous miraculous works. God's Spirit gives visible proofs, show us proofs SJ. You come here with some high claims, but no proofs. You are therefore a false prophet. Veiled religious threats from you mean nothing.
You are COMPLETELY in error. NO ONE can claim to be led by holy spirit... or speak by MEANS of holy spirit... unless they are INDEED led by and speaking by means of... such spirit. I would direct you back to whatever YOUR "source" is... and tell them that they have lied to you, completely misled you.
This may be one of the funniest things you ever said. Lots of people claim to speak by holy spirit, the claim alone means nothing SJ. Listen up okay? Let's try this little experiment and see if it works........
"I IslandWoman am led by God's Holy Spirit and am speaking to you by God's Holy Spirit! What you do is wrong, desist from misleading my people."
Well I said it so that must mean I am! Oops sorry for the "I am" part.
I'm a waitin' for your proof SJ.
IW