being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
Simon, I think the emphasis on genes goes back a while when being gay wasn't so excepted and there was a number of genetic studies sponsored by the gay community to find the gay gene. Its been discredited now as far as I am aware. The matter of genes is complex but whatever your genes and disposition......much more influential is your life/upbringing. That has a massive effect on how you develop, so much so any genetic predispositions are largely irrelevant.
ISP
i just wanted to say hi to the group here.. been baptized for 15 years now.
my wife has been baptized for a little less than that time period.. been an aux poi., reg pio, ms. wife is a reg pio currently.
now im just a lowly publisher :d. have had many doubts over the years on small matters.
Hi welcome to the board>
Hope you like it here.
ISP
some of my comments (and that of others) on other threads have highlighted a basic differance between those of us who belieave jesus christ did exist, and those of us who recon he did not.
i belieave jesus as described in the gospells did not exist.
so i decided to start a thread that adresses this issue face on.
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
Hey Eman, I am a Man U fan..........its my genes....you know.
ISP
jesus was gay - says academic
jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .
dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..
1° The seven letters attributed to Ignatius have only the outward and artificial form of true letter writing, and this is particularly clear in the case of the letter of Ignatius to Polycarp. Again and again, where „Ignatius“ could have mentioned a detail concerning his personal relationship with Polycarp, he instead gives instructions in the form of sayings that would be appropriate on any ocassion. Instead of appearing to be a letter jotted down hurriedly during a trip to martyrdom (so VAN LOON, De Kritiek, P. 302), the letter to Polycarp is carefully designed[xxviii]. HILGENFELD showed that the letter to Polycarp is obviously a companion piece to the Pastoral Epistles[xxix]. But if this letter is forged, then the authenticity of the rest of the Ignatian corpus, to which it has strong ties, must be put in question. 2. In anticipation of the outcome of the journey to martyrdom the author, ‘Ignatius’, tends to designate himself as „Theophoros“ or „Christophoros“ It is unlikely that Ignatius used such terminology which at the time would only be used for a martyr after his death. It is more likely that a later person, as was the custom in those times, wrote a number of letters under the name of the legendary martyr bishop and thereby used the title „Theophoros“, which had been given to Ignatius in the aftermath of his martyrdom[xxx]. 3. Ignatius writes of „Magnesia on the Maeander,“ „Tralles in Asia,“ „Philadelphia in Asia,“ „Smyrna in Asia,“ and „Ephesus in Asia“ in the introduction of the letters that are written to the Churches. Does Ignatius need to remind people in these churches that these places are to be found in Asia and not in Europe[xxxi]? 4. If the letters of Ignatius were collected only some time after they had been written, we have to ask in what way this collection was undertaken. The answer is that the letters were conceived from the start as a collection, as individual parts of a single whole. „Each letter presupposes the previous letter in the order given by Eusebius. [Eusebius, HE, Book III, Chapter XXXVI. Ephesians, Magnesians, Trallians, Romans, Philadelphians, Smyrnaeans, Polycarp.] In the epistle to the Magnesians, 1,2 the hope is expressed that the churches show a threefold union: union of the flesh and of the spirit of Jesus Christ, union of faith and of love, and union with Jesus and with the Father. This is a short recapitulation of some of the main points in the letter to the Ephesians (Eph. 7:7, 14:1 f., 19:1 f.). Eph. 20,1 says that the author has plans 'to write a second booklet', which is then the letter to the Magnesians, and in chapter 13 the contents of the letters to the Ephesians and Magnesians are summarized. Trall. 7.1, which states that ‘Anyone who does anything without the bishop or the presbyters or the deacons does not keep a good conscience’, gets new light from the letter to the Magnesians, where in chapter 4, those that appear ‘not to keep a good conscience’ are the ones that have the bishop’s name on their lips, but in everything act apart from him.”[xxxii]
5. The situation that is presupposed in the letters is fictitious, as is apparent when one considers the contradictions. Ignatius the martyr is condemned to death (Eph 12:1 f., Rom. 5:1), but it is still uncertain whether Ignatius is going to die. He is in chains but is still able to visit the churches and write letters to them. The author writes to the Romans from Smyrna, after an overland journey from Antioch: „From Syria even unto Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea…” (Rom. 5,1). Furthermore, „…there is a tradition, which has Ignatius die as a martyr in the winter of 115-116 on the instruction of Trajanus while in Antioch (Johannes Malalas, Chronographie, ed. Dindorf p. 275). This tradition must be more ancient than what is assumed in the letters of Ignatius.“[xxxiii] The journey of Ignatius to Rome seems to be copied from the Pauline travels narrative. 6 Every now and again, the author accidentally slips out of his role as the alleged letter writer, by writing in a way that sets himself apart from Ignatius, the bishop of Syria (Rom. 2.2) Or again, the author puts himself on the side of the church members: „Let us therefore be careful not to resist the bishop.“ (Eph. 5:3; see also 11:1, 15:2, 17:2, Magn 10:1)[xxxiv]. 7. Marcion seems to be one of the false teachers that Ignatius fought against[xxxv]. Some places obviously show foreknowledge of Valentinian Gnosticism[xxxvi]. Not least, the idea of the monarchical episcopate which is emphatically promoted in the letters, presupposes a later time of origin, probably around 175 (so VAN LOON[xxxvii]) or 160 (so VAN DEN BERGH VAN EYSINGA[xxxviii]). The collection probably developed in Rome. 8. There is a strange inconsistency that we find with the author of the Ignatians: on the one it praises the churches, since in these churches everything
clearly is in best order; on the other hand, the author admonishes the churches with regard to false teachers (Eph. 6:2; Trall 8:1; Magn 11:1; in Smyrn 4:1 the author designates his warning as „a measure of precaution”). This fact is best explained on the assumption that the author, though he very well knew they did not exist at the time of the martyr bishop, fought heresies pretending to be Ignatius, and thus, „to avoid anachronism, he had to make Ignatius a prophet”[xxxix].
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
SP, All I was saying was that I grew up in M/cr and in particular a school where the majority were Man Utd fans. I adopted that football allegiance. Its the same with fashion , hair styles and sexuality.
ISP
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
Lyin, what do you make of the prevelance of a gay lifestyle in some male dominated environments.....like the Navy, boarding schools, prisons and in certain cultures?
ISP
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
I guess they do SP, but what I was saying ...was when did I become a Man Utd fan? Or for you maybe when did you become a packers fan?...Yankees? Spurs?
ISP
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
being gay is a choice by david cornwell
a different perspective on the old argument
have you ever heard a person make this statement?
ISP, I'm curious as to your rational for believing that homosexuality is "by choice". Could you elaborate? Are you personally titillated by homosexual thoughts or fantasies at times? I ask because, while it wouldn't make me agree with you at all, it might help me understand your thought process, ie: ISP has homo-erotic thoughts, along with hetero-erotic thoughts, but ISP chooses to only act on the hetero-erotic feelings? | |
| 6of9 asked the above on another thread. It depends on social pressures. I am sure if I attended an all boys boarding school there would be a strong pressure to be gay. Or if I was in prison for a long time!!!! Or if I lived in times gone by when a gay culture flourished. Or was there a sudden explosion of gay genes!!! Hope that helps. ISP | |
