Posts by PSacramento

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

Scripture tends to make note of events, not dates, so when we try to date events we are, at best, interpreting what is written and trying to fnd that interpretation in history, not an easy task to say the least.

I don't have much issues with people trying to make certain dates more important than they should, as long as they are making it clear that these dates are based on interpretation and not on scripture and as such, are not basis for salvation and are simple "denominational doctrines", certainly less important that thecore fundamentals of Christian belief.

31

they never say "bracketed 'other' here" when reading bible either......

by oompa in

so that word is added a few times in colossians and there many other [bracket] words in the nwt as if that makes it okeydokie...yet when these scriptures are read from any platform or stage, the reader never mentions it...so if some poor worldly person at a convention is just listening and not reading a bible...he has just heard a spurious verse....the same is true on all the wt bible readings on tape or cd....imo if you read it spurious...then it is spurious.......just a thought as no good dub would ever admit jws would ever utter such a thing...................................oompa.

PSacramento

" An accurate translation should be phrased in a way which gives the sense of the original in the receptor language. The scripture in Colossians to which oompa refers can mean either that Jesus is inclusive of all creation or that he is exclusive of all creation. Both understandings of this scripture are legitimate grammatically. That being so, if the translator believes that the original writer wrote in the sense that Jesus was inclusive of all creation, that he was part of creation (albeit the first-born), then it would be both correct and necessary to use "other" to show that the original language allowed for this understanding. Translations which do not show this are equally correct but the difference is a matter of theology, not of linguistics. "

This is quite correct, though I have always been of the view that, IF scripture doesn't call for modification in translation, that it is best to put it in unedited.For the translator to add his/her/their interpretation on a passage that is pretty much clear in terms of language, just on the basis of theology, is not correct.

But, its almost impossible for any translator to NOT do this.

39

The Last (Lord's) Supper

by PSacramento in

i wanted to ask this question beacuse at the last memorial supper it caught my attention more than it ever did:.

why do some (not just the jw's) believe that judas did not partkae of the lord's supper, the bread and the wine?.

in the synoptic gospels of matt, mark and luke, there is nomention of judas being sent away, indeed in luke jesus says "behold the hand of the betrayer at the table with me".. while in john judas is sent away, he is sent after the supper, though it is not clear if this was the lord's supper since there is no mention of the the partaking of the wine and bread in john.. help would be greatly appreciated.. .

PSacramento

JosephMalik,

Thank you for your reply, is there any typical biblical passages used by the JW's to justify that belief?

I have been told that you have to take ALL of the Gospels in order of events and piece them together, but that makes their care worse, not only because John was wriiten after Matt, Mark and Luke, but because John has no "lords supper" other than the supper mentioned where AFTER the supper, Judas is sent away.

143

...Jehovah`s Witness Kids don`t miss Celebrating Birthdays,Christmas..ect..ect!!....

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

jehovah`s witness kids don`t miss celebrating birthdays,christmas..ect..ect..!

!......................thats what jehovah`s witness parents,tell the outside world..my parents did.......the fact is..i did want to have a birthday party..i did want to get toys at christmas..i did want a tree with all the lights..i did want to go to the school christmas party..i did want to hunt for chocolate eggs at easter................tell that to your jw parents and you`ll get an ass-whopp`n..........i told my aunt i loved christmas,she always got me something...my aunt told my mom.....mom was not happy.......i did`nt support the jehovah`s witness lie....i paid the price..............when you were a jehovah`s witness kid,did you want to participate in celebrations?

...outlaw.

PSacramento

isaacaustin:

I would like to know your feelings on this, I love how much my kids and wife love Christmas and I have such fond memories of my childhood Christmas times before my Mom became a JW and now that my older sister and Dad are ones too, it is a tad, well...difficult and at times, hurtful.

39

The Last (Lord's) Supper

by PSacramento in

i wanted to ask this question beacuse at the last memorial supper it caught my attention more than it ever did:.

why do some (not just the jw's) believe that judas did not partkae of the lord's supper, the bread and the wine?.

in the synoptic gospels of matt, mark and luke, there is nomention of judas being sent away, indeed in luke jesus says "behold the hand of the betrayer at the table with me".. while in john judas is sent away, he is sent after the supper, though it is not clear if this was the lord's supper since there is no mention of the the partaking of the wine and bread in john.. help would be greatly appreciated.. .

PSacramento

I wanted to ask this question beacuse at the last Memorial Supper it caught my attention more than it ever did:

Why do some (not just the JW's) believe that Judas did not partkae of the Lord's Supper, the bread and the wine?

In the synoptic gospels of Matt, Mark and Luke, there is nomention of Judas being sent away, indeed in Luke Jesus says "behold the hand of the betrayer at the table with me".

While in John Judas is sent away, he is sent AFTER the supper, though it is not clear if this was the Lord's Supper since there is no mention of the the partaking of the wine and bread in John.

Help would be greatly appreciated.

143

...Jehovah`s Witness Kids don`t miss Celebrating Birthdays,Christmas..ect..ect!!....

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

jehovah`s witness kids don`t miss celebrating birthdays,christmas..ect..ect..!

!......................thats what jehovah`s witness parents,tell the outside world..my parents did.......the fact is..i did want to have a birthday party..i did want to get toys at christmas..i did want a tree with all the lights..i did want to go to the school christmas party..i did want to hunt for chocolate eggs at easter................tell that to your jw parents and you`ll get an ass-whopp`n..........i told my aunt i loved christmas,she always got me something...my aunt told my mom.....mom was not happy.......i did`nt support the jehovah`s witness lie....i paid the price..............when you were a jehovah`s witness kid,did you want to participate in celebrations?

...outlaw.

PSacramento

Over the last little while I have had "concerns" about celebrating Christmas, not BDays and such for I find nothing wrong in making one day special over another, as per Paul in Romans.

But Christmas is an issue with me since we are pretty much clear that Jesus was NOT born on December 25.

Now, one can simply say that it doesn't matter since we don't know when he was born for sure, keeping Dec 25 is ok to celvrate the birth of our Saviour, but that is really just an appeal to tradition.

I love the Christams season, the goodwill towards your fellow man, the warmth and love of family when we get together, but still...

231

Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus in

jw
friends

here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

PSacramento

I think that the crucial issue with the diffent denominations are not the CORE of their beliefs as much as it is that they focus on interpretations over scripture.

While the Trininy is NOT scripture, for no where is it plainly stated that, neither is Jesus being Michael, neither is not celebrating holidays or Bdays, neither is 1914 or any date for that matter.

Undertsanding the difference between what is scripture and what is interpretation would help many people go a long way to getting along better and being more open to dialoge.

17

food at the proper time defense - help

by song19 in

nothing irritates me more than after spending hours showing a dub exactly why they are wrong and why they are false prophets... rather than defend themselves on each subject they all seem to go back to the food at the proper time argument and stop thinking.

its like everything said is wiped clear.. .

anyhoo, i am now left to contest that argument... before i do, i would like to get some of your feedback on good ways to overcome their broken record answer..

PSacramento

I think that sometimes people make undertsand things differently at certain points in their lives, though typiclaly those things tend to be what was more "interpretive" to begin with.

What was/is plainly stated is just that.

I think that it very hard for anyone to decide what another person is "able" to handle, that's the job of the Holy Spirit, not humans.

6

Two Classes of Christians

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the watchtower society teaches that there are two different classes of christians -- one that will live forever on earth, and one that will live forever in heaven.. * where does the bible teach this, anywhere?.

the apostle paul wrote this:.

ephesians 4:4-6 (nwt): 4 one body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called; 5 one lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one god and father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.. where does paul say that there are two hopes and two bodies of christians?.

PSacramento

The two classes typically refered to gentiles and Jews, it was never really directed as two types of Christian.

Of course many times people try to depart from where scripture ends and they interpret things to mean what they believe it should.

31

they never say "bracketed 'other' here" when reading bible either......

by oompa in

so that word is added a few times in colossians and there many other [bracket] words in the nwt as if that makes it okeydokie...yet when these scriptures are read from any platform or stage, the reader never mentions it...so if some poor worldly person at a convention is just listening and not reading a bible...he has just heard a spurious verse....the same is true on all the wt bible readings on tape or cd....imo if you read it spurious...then it is spurious.......just a thought as no good dub would ever admit jws would ever utter such a thing...................................oompa.

PSacramento

From what I gather, adding "the" or "A" or any definite or indefinte article to a passage and using brackets means that the word was added to aid in the "flow and understanding" or said passage, to help with the translation into modern language.

If the passage doesn't require the addition, it shouldn't get one, but if falls on the translators discretion to do so.