Posts by PSacramento

11

"Never receive him into your homes"

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

i was just thinking about that scripture, 2 john 9-11, if i remember correctly.

jehovah's witnesses use it to justify their shunning of members who have been expelled.

a thought just occurred to me about it.

PSacramento

COntext:

7 For (Q) many deceivers have (R) gone out into the world, those who (S) do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is (T) the deceiver and the (U) antichrist. 8 (V) Watch yourselves, (W) that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Anyone who goes too far and (X) does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, (Y) do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting (Z) participates in his evil deeds.

Who are we not to receive?

Those that do NOT acknowldeg that Jesus Christ AS coming IN the flesh ( the incarnation). (Verse 7)

Those that do not have the (union of ) Father AND the Son. (verse 10).

IN short, we are not to receive anyone claiming to be a CHristian but that does NOT preach the incarnation ( and possibly resurrection, John isn't clear in that regards BUT from His other writing we can assume he also means that) or the union of Father and Son.

544

FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!

by punkofnice in

i have seen debates and shizzle about god or not god etc etc.. i was even confronted by an aggressive and trheatening muslim in the street, who was angry that i wanted proof that god existed.

he ranted on a load of old b0110cks about 'hell' and stuff.

finally he yelled at me: 'do you want god to write your name in the sky?

PSacramento

Thanks to the Hubble telescope, it has been concluded that our universe had a beginning. It is called "The Big Bang"

There is evidence that shows the universe is expanding and, since we have been able to track it, always has been.

That has lead to the "big bang theory" that this universe and all we know of it ( time, space, matter, etc) had a starting point ( because the universe as it is expanding is also in a rate of "decay").

Some postulate a "cosmic singularity" that, for some reason, started to expand in an "explosion of life causing energy".

Some go with the "multiple universe" hypothesis ( that this universe is only one of unknow countless universes).

We do NOT know IF our universe has a beginning "ex nihlo" (from nothing) or if it expanded from an already existing universe.

We know it is expanding and decaying and that leads many scientist to believe that it had a beginning and will have an end.

544

FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!

by punkofnice in

i have seen debates and shizzle about god or not god etc etc.. i was even confronted by an aggressive and trheatening muslim in the street, who was angry that i wanted proof that god existed.

he ranted on a load of old b0110cks about 'hell' and stuff.

finally he yelled at me: 'do you want god to write your name in the sky?

PSacramento

There is no way to prove that God exists, even if one had evidence up the yin-yang, evidence still doesn't equal proof.

There are a few different opinions as to way Gopd doesn't make Himself more obvious to all but the reality is that we don't know why He doesn't.

Sure we can speculotae and all that, but in the end that is all we would be doing, speculating.

Belief in God requires faith, period.

The issue may be HOW does one get that faith.

For some that faith is based one reasonable arguments ( we've all heard them so I won't re-hash), some are based on an unquanitifable perssonal epxerience and yes, some are based on "blind faith", and so forth.

There is one things though and that is that IF God proved Himself to Us that would be the end of it would it?

I mean, He would continue to have to prove himself to every generation, He would have to sustain that proof, He would have to continue proving it on a daily basis and, even then, that wouldn't necessarily mean that We be any different than we are right now.

I think a fair question is WHY should God prove Himself to you?

I mean, suppose you are this supremem being, a being that fro all practical terms is all powerful and all knowing, why would you feel a need to prove yourself to people?

14

REIFY: making God real in your mind

by Terry in

we've all seen those war movies where a g.i.

keeps a picture of his loved ones inside his coat pocket and takes it out before the big battle to.

remind himself what he is fighting for.. that photo represents what he loves most.. the photo captures a moment in time.

PSacramento

You went through a lot of shit dude, pardon my french, I have the upmost respect for you and what you have done Terry, truly.

42

Which is best? An EVOLVED or a CREATED human?

by Terry in

consider the implication of being a created human as opposed to an evolved human.. the nature a created human has is given due to intentionality.

the creator wills that nature upon the creature.. .

what escape from nature is there?.

PSacramento

I am glad you said "PERHAPS ". IMO 8 out of ten humans could play sports at a professional level. Enviroment is huge factor, and the technological pampering they receive is staggering... I highly doubt most of our " Gods " of the modern sports world could perform as well as ancient warriors. They would cry for their mommies and coaches if faced with a real challenge for survival. Think " Battle of Thermopylae ". Contrast that with Lawrence Taylor, in his prime, barely completing 3- 1 minute rounds of boxing in a tough man contest. Specialization in one field ( a physical idiot savant ) doesn't prove an evolution to a higher form of human being.

Again, pure conjecture.

I've been in Martial arts for over 30 years, compete at the amateur, semi-pro and pro level in various fighting arts and i can tell you, elite atheltes are just that ELITE.

Its a whole different world, truly.

I think that we need to compare the elite VS the elite if we are gonna get "apples and oranges' but with the typicll "embelishments" of History in terms of military exploits, that is at the very least, hard to do.

42

Which is best? An EVOLVED or a CREATED human?

by Terry in

consider the implication of being a created human as opposed to an evolved human.. the nature a created human has is given due to intentionality.

the creator wills that nature upon the creature.. .

what escape from nature is there?.

PSacramento

One can PERHAPS view our increasing performance in sports as evidence of sort, but since we really don't have that much historical evidence of the past, it is only conjecture.

42

Which is best? An EVOLVED or a CREATED human?

by Terry in

consider the implication of being a created human as opposed to an evolved human.. the nature a created human has is given due to intentionality.

the creator wills that nature upon the creature.. .

what escape from nature is there?.

PSacramento

..Best at describing reality.

Under that criteria I would think that evolved makes more sense.

If we evolved then we are what we would think we should be : Better than we were 10000 years ago, but not perfect.

On a planet of mostly water, we can't breath water, we lose our sight and hearing with age, we have an appendix, etc.

If we had been created by a perfect being, logically, He would have created us perfect too so, we would be able to breath underwater, never get tired or old or weak or lose vision, never get sick or have organs that can kill us.

30

So we are created in God's Image and expected to freely forgive those who trespass against us..so why doesn't HE?

by StoneWall in

we kinda all know the scriptures about freely forgiving those who trespass(sin) against us and jesus words about forgiving up to seventy-seven times etc... then we take into account how god hates two sets of scales to measure with: (quotes from nwt).

proverbs 20:23 " two sorts of weights are something detestable to jehovah, and a cheating pair of scales is not good.. proverbs 20:10 " two sorts of weights and two sorts of ephah measuresthey are both of them together something detestable to jehovah.. so my question is this.

why not lead by example?.

PSacramento

Well, the iisue of forgievness is best undestood under the context of the Parable that Jesus mentioned:'

Matthew 18:21-35

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Forgiveness

21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27 And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30 But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

It is a parable that highlights Us wanting to be forgiven BUT not wanting to forgive others.

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

PSacramento

You can invent and reinvent all you want. Problem is with the NT writers they confiscated an OT Messiah which was suppose to get everything done 1st trip out. Your guy didn't get the job done, sorry....I didn't vote for Mitt either

I didn't invent or re0invent anything.

It was quite clear to the disciples of Jesus that his resurrestion changed everything, which it did.

Your view or my view on that is irrelevant to what happened to them.

We are talking about the context of the early church VS the JW's current view.

34

Well, at least they got one thing right

by Word in

jesus christ sits on his throne in heaven and want's the world to to submit to his rule.

but they got the time for his entronment wrong, it began back in the first century.

they also don't understand the nature of his rule, jesus christ rules the world from within and without, from inside the heart of righteous people and from heaven above.. they also got it right that jesus christ want's to create a new world community.

PSacramento

AN ex:

Ask a JW on whos name that have to call to be saved and they will say Jehovah.

As why and they will first go to Joel 2:32, then they will go to Romans 10:13.

The problem is context and this is why:

WHile Joel is correct, Romans 10:13, while a citation of Joel, is Paul showing that Christians are to call on the Name of Christ, who Paul proclaims as Lord:

But what does it say? “ The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart ”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 [ e ] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, [ f ] resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [ g ] resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “ Whoever believes in Him will not be [ h ] disappointed .” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “ Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved .”

We goes with Peter's proclamtion in Acts:

10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that [g] by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead— [h] by [i] this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 [j] He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders , but which became the chief corner stone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”