jgnat

Joined

• started 370 topics
• posted 24,293 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by jgnat

• 
  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  Timing, lol. Do I feel smart now?
• 
  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  If we were to look at the body as a massive collaborative collection of cells, there are certain failures that the collective cannot recover from. For instance, transport of oxygen to the host cells. Then the system collapses, and the cells begin to die. A formerly living, breathing organism collapses.

  http://teachertech.rice.edu/Participants/dawsonm/cells/timeline.htm

  We know that now. We've only known that since 1809.

  So with this theory of life and death, spirit is not called for.
• 
  30

  How do you cope with impaired mobility?

  by compound complex in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  greetings, my aging friends!

  before asking you this question, i tried to do some research on the thought that 'hard work never killed anyone,' but, man, can it cripple you!

  what i wanted to figure out is something better than you're getting older and tireder.. many of us have done hard physical labor most of our lives and see no prospect of retirement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  Astute as ever, CoCo.

  I heard from a nurse that the debilitating hip fractures in old age may not all be because of frail bones. Lack of exercise and stretching can tighten the ligaments to the point where they snap the bone.

  We were always meant to stay active. Not overdo it of course, especially when recovering from an injury, but staying on the move, being limber.

  
• 
  56

  Misquote in the Creation Book

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my dad came into the jw's because someone studied the "creation" book with him.

  it pains me deeply that he sent me an e-mail recently saying that to keep the peace with my mom, he will stop communicating with me as much as possible.

  i should communicate with him only if i have an emergency.. it upsets me to no end, but i cannot do anything or much about it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  First of all, too bad about your dad.

  Second, great catch!

  Third, it is not surprising that an agnostic would waffle. It kind of defines the position.

  Finally, addressing OTWO's point, from my few discussions with I-L-TTATT, it is clear this is a very bright young man, who brings all of his intelligence to the question at hand. It was likely a foregone conclusion that he would find his way out of the WTBTS. What is so tragic is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and his father is also very intelligent and in every other part of his life, logic and reason directs his way. I can understand TTATT's desire to put together an airtight argument that his father might stumble across one day.

  Here is a young man who in every respect should make his parents proud. He has the intelligence of his father and the passion from his mother. He will do very well in life, yet his parents remain chained to an organization and an ideology that prevents them from giving their son all the pride, love and encouragement that is his due.
• 
  23

  Do you think the age has passed when there can be no new religions?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think we are already living in the age where there can be no new religions.

  we have access to information like never before and anyone claiming revelations of something new and starting a whole new religion can easily be discredited.. christianity and islam may continue to subdivide but i think we've pretty much seen the end of anything new in terms of a new belief system.. .

  what are your thoughts on this?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  Religion will continue and new ones will rise up. I predict that Islam will have to abandon its apparent unity and will split. Current religions will slowly modify their core beliefs to catch up with modern mores. We don't see large scale competitors because they will start small as all new religions do.
• 
  30

  How do you cope with impaired mobility?

  by compound complex in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  greetings, my aging friends!

  before asking you this question, i tried to do some research on the thought that 'hard work never killed anyone,' but, man, can it cripple you!

  what i wanted to figure out is something better than you're getting older and tireder.. many of us have done hard physical labor most of our lives and see no prospect of retirement.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  Also in my fifties here. With lifestyle changes I have been enjoying increased mobility these past few months. That even with some major setbacks including some cracked ribs. Listening to the body is a new skill. The burning pain of straining muscles, good. Sharp pain, stop. When I push past the burning pain I am rewarded with stronger muscles within a few days. I am delighted how fast the body responds.
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  Who write dictionaries? Why are they recorded?
• 
  78

  I was "totally" stopped in my tracks by an "atheist" comment.

  by booker-t in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i must admit i can at times be a little "egotistical" when it comes to knowledge and the bible.

  i have studied the bible for so long and have always had a passion for the bible as a jw and as an ex-jw.

  i guess that is all i have left when it comes to religion and as humans we do tend to stroke our egos.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  God appeared to have different standards of justice by which he could act. - Apognophos

  As in...He was the God of the Jews and hang the rest. My God is better than your God. Some Animals are more equal than others. It makes perfect sense for a tribal culture surrounded by enemy tribes, and makes less sense in a world where we are awakening to our global, human identity.
• 
  78

  I was "totally" stopped in my tracks by an "atheist" comment.

  by booker-t in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i must admit i can at times be a little "egotistical" when it comes to knowledge and the bible.

  i have studied the bible for so long and have always had a passion for the bible as a jw and as an ex-jw.

  i guess that is all i have left when it comes to religion and as humans we do tend to stroke our egos.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  We HAVE had massive extinction events, recorded in the fossil record, but they do not match the biblical account.

  

  So in a way, milola, the earth has been "cleansed" several times over.
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jgnat

  We distinguish quite clearly between the living and the inanimate. There are a few markers, like the ability to replicate. Rocks can't do that.

  Sorry again, but this is not a clear distinction at all. There is no unanimous agreement on what life is, despite what we were taught in biology class. As I mentioned back here, there are a number of forms of quasi-life that blur the boundaries between ourselves and rocks. - Agnophos

  I’m not actually making the argument that rocks are intelligent, just to clarify. - Seraphim

  I took the time to describe a quality of classification special to the way we see our world, and also limited by language. I'll repeat for emphasis, even though I am sure only librarians and classifiers care about these things. We are very good at classifying at the macro level (a boot is an item of clothing, a bucket is not) but our ability to confidently classify breaks down when we get to finer and finer distinctions. We have viruses, for instance, that have some markers for life (they replicate) but are missing others (cannot live independently from a host).

  We do have a good working definition for life, and we look for evidences of that. The ability to replicate is one of those markers. Yes, there are things that live in the fringes of this working definition, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Rocks don't replicate themselves. They are not conscious, they do not think. They are not animate. By working scientific definitions, they have no life. Working athiest scientists are not animists.

  I've heard Seraphim use complexity as a marker but that is not a working definition for life. There are lots of highly complex but inanimate things around us.