good video, what I found very interesting, that tax collectors back then were called apostates, is there a source for this information ? Would be extremely helpful.
inbetween
JoinedPosts by inbetween
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New Video "Stop the Shunning!"
by Watchtower-Free innew video by jwstruggle "stop the shunning!
jw.org says we don't shun but we know otherwise".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72cews3_cq.
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Why the "New Light" in the July 15 Watchtower?
by Indian Larry init seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner.
for example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.. what is the reason this time?
are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up?
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inbetween
personally I think its the growing number of participants at the memorial, which became embarrassing for the cult, since they claimed, that the dwindling number in the past is proof of the nearness of Armageddon.
by pushing "normal" annointed to the same level as the great crowd, they take away some importance of being anointed. Their being somehow special is then really pushed to the future "kingship in heaven". Maybe they hope, this will prevent some from joining the anointed rank, or even not paying any attention to the numbers anymore, since they are pointless. Who cares how many are anointed, since the FDS is not made up of them anymore.
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another problem with the new FDS doctrine
by inbetween inthe issue july 15th 2013 changes the understanding of the fds dramatically, and it was broiught out here and on other places this creates numerous problems.. here is another one:.
jesus is supposed to be the head of the congregation.
when something goes wrong, he is often portrayed as the one having control over his congregation and also that in time he will act, clean the congo and direct elders (being the stars in his hand).
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inbetween
The issue July 15th 2013 changes the understanding of the FDS dramatically, and it was broiught out here and on other places this creates numerous problems.
Here is another one:
Jesus is supposed to be the head of the congregation. When something goes wrong, he is often portrayed as the one having control over his congregation and also that in time he will act, clean the congo and direct elders (being the stars in his hand)
But now, he is portrayed as being actually absent from the congregation, since he appointed a slave to provide proper food. The reason in the parable, why the master appointed a slave, was not to keep the slave busy, or because the master became lazy, no it was simple, because the master left the country, therefore could not take care of this by himself.
But if he is absent, how can he direct congregational matters ? What point is there in entrusting somebody else with such an important task, like providing "spirtual" food, but still watching the whole thing and meddling in the affairs anyway at anytime ? It simply does not make sense.
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Is "Old Light" really called independent thinking?
by I_love_Jeff inwhen "old light" becomes "new light" sometime down the line the "new light" will eventually become old.
i do realize the superiors use passages (aka word magic) to explain such a big change.
what would be the difference between holy spirit revelation vs. man's opinion in this particular situation?
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inbetween
New International Version (©2011)James 1:17 might be useful
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.New Living Translation (©2007)
Whatever is good and perfect comes down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.English Standard Version (©2001)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. -
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inbetween
you put it perfectly, Julia, nothing to add.
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inbetween
its about hypocrisy and appearance, those who are in for that, your description fits exactly, there are others, who are really genuine though.
The point however, the whole pioneer arrangement supports this kind of behaviour in people.
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Equilibrium
by DeWandelaar ini was watching "equilibrium" last week (seen it before) and it striked me how much comparison there is with the "truth".
here is the plot summery:.
in a futuristic world, a strict regime has eliminated war (are we not in a spiritual paradise?
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inbetween
when I saw the movie last year, I thought very similar.
Becoming a JW for some people indeed solves some problems. Its the way this is achieved or rather enforced, what makes the whole thing highly questionable.
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How many people have you helped/facilitated to leave JWs?
by Julia Orwell inme: one, my husband, so far.
if we all snatch one person from the borg, will our numbers grow exponentially?
i'm no mathematician.. how many have you personally helped?.
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inbetween
atm i have one "study" - my wife.
Hope she will one day be on her way to "babtizm", but only after she dedicated herself to complete independent reasoning and decsion making based on facts, not on what 8 guys in Brooklyn tell her to do. She makes progress though, I have to intense my return visits on her ;-)
all others I can contact are B-NH (brain not at home)
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Exam time again
by jean-luc picard inmy stepson has just finished his national exams in his mother tongue.. talking about how it went, i suddenely had a flashback.. did you, like me, used to right about the "new system" paradise, or other jw stuff, given any opportunity, ( usually in english essays ) ?.
............... and did you count the time?.
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inbetween
always shyed away from giving "witness" or confessing to be one, even in my days of fully believing, somehow I always was embarrassed, only when it was absolutley necessary, like during holiday season, I came forward. Then sometimes question arose, and I could give a wonderful witness (rather an attempt to prove, why i am not aboslutely nuts as most people think JW are anyway)
The only time I remember in school talking about God was when i defended the belief in creation, thinking that my education on this level (based on the old creation-book) was soo much better than any college education concerning evolution. I feel still ashamed when I think of how ignorant and stupid I was.
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the danger of apostacy
by inbetween inundoubtely the biggest crime in watchtower world is apostacy.
the upcoming dc apparently has quite some parts on this issue.. recently i read a book from the philosopher hubert schleichert, the title is something like "how to discuss with fundumantelist without loosing your mind".. he goes into fanatics of all kind, and shows, why apostates are so dangerous for any ideology, may it be religious or even political.. the reason: any strong ideology is convinced of possesing the truth.
this creates a problem, since apparantly not everybody accepts this belief or ideology.
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inbetween
Undoubtely the biggest crime in watchtower world is apostacy. The upcoming DC apparently has quite some parts on this issue.
Recently I read a book from the philosopher Hubert Schleichert, the title is something like "How to discuss with fundumantelist without loosing your mind".
He goes into fanatics of all kind, and shows, why apostates are so dangerous for any ideology, may it be religious or even political.
The reason: Any strong ideology is convinced of possesing the truth. This creates a problem, since apparantly not everybody accepts this belief or ideology. However, those outside (world, pagans etc) did not have the chance or did not want to have the chance to fully get acquanted with the "truth" of a certain ideology. So they can be viewed as ignorant, blind whatever, and it creates not a big threat for the ideology itself. However, when those, who at one time shared the belief, turn away, those who seen the "light" turn on purpose to darkness, they must be outright evil, haters of truth, "mentally dsiseased" etc.
In history, every fundumanetly belief or ideology acts like this (example heretics in catholic church, dissidents of marxist world views etc)
They reason, the reaction is soo strong, is in my opinion, because the existence of those turning away from an established truth would lead to a question, a true believer never should ask: "Is there maybe something wrong with my belief ? " The only reason why people turn away from such an obvious truth can only be out of wickedness and hatred for truth. I cannot be because maybe it is not the truth after all.
Apostates, heretics and the like actually create a real problem for every belief. I think this even is worse for witnesses, who pride themselves in accepting people only after a thorough study of the belief system. How can someone fall away after "making the truth their own"?
Therefore its quite to be expected that a belef system like JW will react soo strongly to apostaes, its a defense mechanism, since its very foundation is endangered.