Gary, I very much respect you and I want to extend my respect to your wife, but I find something new in your comment about how your wife sees this. This is a very clever way to ignore all failed dates and prophecies.
Posts by dgp
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33Do the Harold Campings of the world make witnesses question their own beliefs?
by dgp innow that harold camping has been proven wrong again, er, the rapture is taking place at another date because he is an imperfect man, one question that comes to my mind is whether this kind of fiascos ever make active jehovah's witness connect the dots and realize they have been deceived as well.. also, i wonder if active witnesses ever get to think that if unbelievers were right about not believing camping, maybe they are also right about something else?
perhaps relying on reason is not that misguided after all?.
i would love to see your opinions on this.. .
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85
How many gods are there?
by jgnat inchristianity was birthed in a polytheistic world, inheriting from jewish roots the concept of one g-d. now, instead of one god for israel, we are offered one god for the whole world.
caesar (mortal men) was declared a god.
gods had powers beyond ordinary men, could grant requests, and demanded sacrifice and worship.
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dgp
You're welcome, JGNat.
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85
How many gods are there?
by jgnat inchristianity was birthed in a polytheistic world, inheriting from jewish roots the concept of one g-d. now, instead of one god for israel, we are offered one god for the whole world.
caesar (mortal men) was declared a god.
gods had powers beyond ordinary men, could grant requests, and demanded sacrifice and worship.
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dgp
JGNat, in your list of mortal gods you forgot the Greatest One, the Heavenly Father, Comrade Kim Il Sung? He passed away but continues to be North Korea's "Eternal President". And please do not forget the Dear Leader, our Father, Generalissimo Kim Jong Il.
My impression is that we have no proof of the existence of one god or many. Or, conversely, that monotheists and polytheists believe they are right and they also believe they have "proofs" of their assertions.
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6
Sending the Wrong Message
by Marvin Shilmer insending the wrong message .
today i uploaded a new article to my blog addressing watchtower and whether witnesses are coerced to refuse blood transfusion.
watchtower lawyers argue that witnesses are coerced to refuse blood.
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dgp
Marvin, just for the sake of clarity, your post here says that "...witnesses are coerced to refuse blood transfusions", but it is clear -as your blog has it- that you mean "...witnesses are NOT coerced to refuse blood transfusions".
Wow. I took particular notice of this section of the letter:
The HLC arrangement is only for baptized and unbaptized publishers and their children.
This is scary. Am I reading this correctly if I think that, according to this, if a man of 45 were to become "an unbaptized publisher", then the HLC would feel entitled to speak for, say, what the 17 year old son of that unbaptized publisher will do regarding a transfusion, even if that child were not even a publisher?
In my opinion, your conclusion is correct, and is proved correct on many grounds but the ones you listed are enough.
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103
How the WTBTS creates atheists
by Nickolas ini am an atheist.
i arrived at this juncture in my life despite not wanting to.
when i first met the witnesses at 22 i was a seeker looking for answers to the question of life - in other words, prime cult target material.
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dgp
The easy way to make atheists is to let people read about the way the Watchtower was created and operates, and then meeting and having a close contact with a real witness. That makes you an atheist for sure.
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9
In the bible, who is who?....... no, really tell me in confused!
by PaulinoRamones ini need some clearing up, who is the angel gabriel?
and who is michael?
and witch one is the one used to represent crist?.
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dgp
Paulino, un consejo (some advice): No quieras que alguien te dé las respuestas; búscalas tú y verás que se te abre la mente / Don't try to find someone who will give you all the answers; find the answers yourself, and you'll see how your mind opens up.
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35
How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"
by Nickolas ini'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.
i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.
i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.
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dgp
I wish I had thought about this kind of thread long ago. I bought "Crisis of Conscience", "In Search of Christian Freedom" and "Captives of a Concept" for a witness, and read them myself, as well, but then was unable to find a way to suggest she read those books, out of fear of her cutting contact with me once she knew I was in touch and read apostate literature. I would not be supposed to have contacts of such kind since I am a worldly and supposedly ignorant about the ways of the Watchtower.
So I think you should not wait for a chance to get this person to read Crisis of Conscience. I wonder what the posters will think about your asking a key question instead. "Can you please tell me how do Jehovah's witnesses know that theirs is Jehovah's organization? I mean, for example, the Catholic Church says the pope is the heir of Peter's authority. How do Jehovah's witnesses know they were chosen by Jehovah as his organization?" In my humble opinion, this is a better way to make people think and perhaps be more receptive to reading more material.
But pay attention to what Black Sheep said.
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20
Hi :-)
by GiveMeAnAspirin inhi, i am a catholic.
i've never been a jw nor ever tried to become one but i know a number of former jws and one or two current/active jws.. i've been wondering why active jws are so anti-catholic; is it part of the teaching they receive in the watchtower?.
cheers.
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dgp
Give me an Aspirin: I am not a witness either, and I was a devout Catholic.
After a while, you'll find that the Watchtower really despises the Catholic Church. My guess is that it is the largest church yet, and so it is their biggest competitor, but I also think that there are many similarities in the way the Watchtower works that make it perhaps easier for a witness to dupe a Catholic into the society. Both are vertical organizations. If you read about the Watchtower for a while, you will find that "je ne se quoi" that sort of makes you feel at home.
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55
I talked the first time in 20 years to a non-JW and need a divorce...
by Intel inthis is very difficult to write (forgive me for any spelling mistake, i am not a native english speaker).. i cannot tell my complete story on this board - i eventually will, once i have broken the last "link in the chain" that has kept me captive to the borg.
i can't tell my story, because.....basically i will be known.....as a more or less "famous" jw..... i have been lurking this site for many years, wrote here under another name - this eventually was found out and i had to do "damage containment".
i had to "go back" and tow the party line....all my family (extended and close) are witnesses, all my "friends" and even work & business relationships are jw.
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dgp
I have never been a witness, and happily for me I would never have to make the decisions you'd have to make if you left the organization. I have learned a lot on this site but I can't relate or understand everything. I do know this, however: that worldly friend of yours would help you a lot if he understands what goes on. This man will also go ten extra miles if he thinks he can help you out of that prison, whatever the time frame you need.
I also believe that you should make more worldly friends. I am under the impression that people in your situation will eventually make mistakes, attract attention, and might end up disfellowshipped. You will need someone to help you if that should happen. I'm sure your worldly friends would help.
I honestly wish you the very best.
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8
The ties that keep you in chains
by dgp ini am under the impression that one of the worst aspects of life as a jehovah's witness is that every new family and friendship tie you make might become a chain if you ever want out.. i was never a jw and therefore don't have the mindset, but, being who i am, i find that i would not want to create any ties with the witness community.
but it would feel to me that every new friend i made, and every relative, would come at the price of their eventually becoming your worst enemies.. let's use marriage as an example.
i would want a woman by my side, to share my life; but then i would also feel that i would need to find her among the witnesses only; my relationship with her would need to be approved by others; i would not be free to actually get to meet her before we married; once we married, she'd be someone who would know me intimately and could turn me in to the elders; and, if, unfortunately, my relationship didn't work, i would need to sleep with someone else and be disfellowshipped in order to be able to divorce her.
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dgp
I am under the impression that one of the worst aspects of life as a Jehovah's witness is that every new family and friendship tie you make might become a chain if you ever want out.
I was never a JW and therefore don't have the mindset, but, being who I am, I find that I would not want to create any ties with the witness community. Of course, I would need them. But it would feel to me that every new friend I made, and every relative, would come at the price of their eventually becoming your worst enemies.
Let's use marriage as an example. I would want a woman by my side, to share my life; but then I would also feel that I would need to find her among the witnesses only; my relationship with her would need to be approved by others; I would not be free to actually get to meet her before we married; once we married, she'd be someone who would know me intimately and could turn me in to the elders; and, if, unfortunately, my relationship didn't work, I would need to sleep with someone else and be disfellowshipped in order to be able to divorce her. It seems to me that I would choose to have a hidden relationship with a worldly woman for as long as I could. Marriage would seem like too much of a burden for little reward unless I were able to find a truly lovable woman.
If I were an old man, then I would feel like I would need to hide my true opinions in order not to be desserted by those I love. And so on.
I wonder what you people think about this.