Posts by dgp

14

Hypocricy of JW stance on shunning those disfellowshipped from the congregation?

by corpusdei in

i was doing some research on an tangentally related topic when i came across this gem, from the 7/1/1986 watchtower, in a paragraph discussing the cost of integrity:.

certainly when a person becomes a christian witness of jehovah, he suddenly finds out who are his true friends.

some will perhaps shun or boycott him because he has abandoned his former religion, even though they themselves do not practice any religion properly.

Repeat thread: Don't you sometimes feel all the changes in doctrine are deliberate attempts at keeping you in fear of the unexpected?

by dgp in

i made the stupid mistake of not adding a title to my previous topic, so i corrected the mistake this time.. in "the ayn rand lexicon, objectivism from a to z"(http://www.amazon.com/ayn-rand-lexicon-objectivism-library/dp/0452010519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=utf8&qid=1308711714&sr=8-1, i found this (pages 248 - 249);.

it is a grave error to suppose that a dictatorship rules a nation by means of strict, rigid laws which are obeyed and enforced with rigorous, military precision.

such a rule would be evil, but almost bearable: men could endure the harshest edicts, provided these edicts were known, specific and stable; it is not the known that breaks men's spirits, but the unpredictable.

dgp

I made the stupid mistake of not adding a title to my previous topic, so I corrected the mistake this time.

In "The Ayn Rand Lexicon, Objectivism from A to Z"(http://www.amazon.com/Ayn-Rand-Lexicon-Objectivism-Library/dp/0452010519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308711714&sr=8-1, I found this (pages 248 - 249);

It is a grave error to suppose that a dictatorship rules a nation by means of strict, rigid laws which are obeyed and enforced with rigorous, military precision. Such a rule would be evil, but almost bearable: men could endure the harshest edicts, provided these edicts were known, specific and stable; it is not the known that breaks men's spirits, but the unpredictable. A dictatorship has to be capricious; it has to rule by means of the unexpected, the incomprehensible, the wantonly irrational; it has to deal not in death, but in sudden death; a state of chronic uncertainty is what men are psychologically unable to bear.

Don't you guys feel that the "tacking in the wind", all the changes in doctrine, and all the extremes elders will go to, and the gossip, are just a way to keep you all in fear of what might happen, just as in the paragraph? My hunch is, perhaps the changes in doctrine are not "tacking in the wind" at all, but a deliberate way to make people not know what to expect, and thus fear the unexpected.

What do you guys think?

2

untitled

by dgp in

in "the ayn rand lexicon, objectivism from a to z"(http://www.amazon.com/ayn-rand-lexicon-objectivism-library/dp/0452010519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=utf8&qid=1308711714&sr=8-1, i found this (pages 248 - 249);.

it is a grave error to suppose that a dictatorship rules a nation by means of strict, rigid laws which are obeyed and enforced with rigorous, military precision.

such a rule would be evil, but almost bearable: men could endure the harshest edicts, provided these edicts were known, specific and stable; it is not the known that breaks men's spirits, but the unpredictable.

dgp

In "The Ayn Rand Lexicon, Objectivism from A to Z"(http://www.amazon.com/Ayn-Rand-Lexicon-Objectivism-Library/dp/0452010519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308711714&sr=8-1, I found this (pages 248 - 249);

It is a grave error to suppose that a dictatorship rules a nation by means of strict, rigid laws which are obeyed and enforced with rigorous, military precision. Such a rule would be evil, but almost bearable: men could endure the harshest edicts, provided these edicts were known, specific and stable; it is not the known that breaks men's spirits, but the unpredictable. A dictatorship has to be capricious; it has to rule by means of the unexpected, the incomprehensible, the wantonly irrational; it has to deal not in death, but in sudden death; a state of chronic uncertainty is what men are psychologically unable to bear.

Don't you guys feel that the "tacking in the wind", all the changes in doctrine, and all the extremes elders will go to, and the gossip, are just a way to keep you all in fear of what might happen, just as in the paragraph? My hunch is, perhaps the changes in doctrine are not "tacking in the wind" at all, but a deliberate way to make people not know what to expect, and thus fear the unexpected.

What do you guys think?

6

Question

by silver rhino in

jw
friends

if any witness were able to just walk away from the organization with no repercussions, in five years what percentage of witnesses would have walked away?.

dgp

On the basis of my experience in the Catholic Church, yes, 30-40% would leave, and many of those who stayed would only be nominal witnesses. A very tiny minority would be very devout, and they would be considered crazy and extremists by the rest.

12

GREAT BOOK ! May free your JW loved ones.

by wobble in

i have just finished reading a great book entitled "believing bullshit" by stephen law, published by prometheus books of n.y. www.prometheusbooks.com.

in it the author outlines how we come to believe total claptrap most often because of the dubious methods used by the promoters of these ideas.. he does not set out to debunk the ideas themselves as the main purpose of the book, though in passing he has to do so with some .like alien abductions, christian science and homeopathy etc.

his main purpose is to expose the methods used to get people to believe,,and how even if the idea being put forward may be good, or a truth, to use such methods is not justified, and leads one open to being sucked in to an intellectual black hole if you are duped by them.. if this book is read by an active, believing jw they will not smell any rats, but by the end of it, if they are honest with themselves they will see the methods used by the wt as totally dishonest and reminiscent of snake-oil salesmen.. it may just free their minds enough.. i cannot praise it too highly, it is a valuable read for anybody, and shows why even college educated, intelligent people can be fooled by bs..

dgp

Bookmarked for later.

3

Scriptural Questions Answered ... by The Witchtower ;)

by processor in

sciptural questions answered.

is cannibalism for christians?.

are there holy animals?.

dgp

Bookmarked for later.

24

Can You Find This Guy A Wife?

by Broken Promises in

and no, we're not talking about miz/no room for george.... .

a 38-year-old illinois man is willing to pay half his annual salary to anyone who can find him a wife, and has even set up a website to promote his cause.

paul "handsome paul" gutierrez has started a website called nomobile "can anyone find me a wife?

dgp

I think he should not get too desperate. Worse men have actually found mates.

Here's one:

He even made it to President of Venezuela, in what people called "choosing between the beauty (a former Miss Universe) and the beast (well, him)".

He's been married at least twice.

He's a chatterbox, but here's a summary of what he offers:

He has sort of flirted around...

But the love of his life he found closer to home:

(A memory of our marriage. It was Venezuela that got f****d, though...)

36

what am i in for? i have 5 jw employees and now im dfd...

by oompa in

jw
friends

only one is a guy...a mini serve .

one is a reg pioneer.... all are actually pretty key to my biz....three have been there over 20 years (ya...i am a great boss!!!).

how much pressure are they going to get to quit working for me???.

dgp

I think they will eventually leave the place. In the meantime, you can find other people to replace them.

It's so bad this has to happen at all.

34

MS shuns Witness parents

by EmptyInside in

jw
friends

i just wanted your thoughts on this situation.

there was a young boy from my former congregatioin,he was about 5 years younger than me.. and his parents were overly strict with him.

but,i think the combination of being witnesses plus being raised the old-fashioned,southern way themselves was a bad combo for their son.. anyway,he got a lot of beatings at the meetings.

dgp

Empty Inside wrote:

That is why other Witnesses are upset with him. They feel he should forgive and forget and let his parents see his kids.

The point of my thread was simply to suggest that, in this forum at least, we give the word "shunning" the meaning the Watchtower gives to it. This, because we need to be clear about what we mean in each case, so a clear discussion can follow. In this sense, the ministerial servant in question is not shunning his parents.

Incidentally, I think shunning (in the Watchtower sense) is just wrong and one of the ways this organization controls its followers. I even think it should be forbidden by law. I don't think religious authorities have a right to crush their own.

Now, incidentally, Broken Promises just gave one perfectly valid reason for this man not to want to talk to his parents:

I don't blame the guy from wanting to protect his kids from his abusive parents.

I don't think it's for anyone to judge him for this, because we don't know what went on behind closed doors. The mental and emotional scars are obviously still there for him.

Exactly. We don't know what happened, so let's not assume the guy is doing the wrong thing.