Posts by dgp

30

Revealed at last: My full bio, picture and why I am here!

by kurtbethel in

jw
friends

.

hope you found it interesting.

note: this is my post #1914, so naturally all of the above is invisible.

dgp

Well, I can't see it. Would any of you guys offer me a "Bible" study so I can see it?

19

My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go.

could i come pick her up my wife asked me.

sure, i went over as soon as i could.. when i got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up.

Balsam, I am so sorry to hear about how your son died. As GL Tirebiter says, it seems obvious that the HLC and the elders knew about North Carolina law but chose not to tell. It also seems obvious to me that they wouldn't have the nerve to say right there that the law is to be disregarded, but not out of concern for you, your family or your late son, but for the organization. How could they say "hey, blood transfusions are wrong" in circumstances where a young man had just died because of that belief? They didn't care about saving your son's life when they could have done it. All they cared about was the organization. It's so sad that an organization, any organization, is put above the people it is supposedly meant to serve.

I never met your son, and I don't think we will ever meet. And, I don't pray anymore. If I did, dear Balsam, I would pray for your son, and for your family, for you, and, particularly, for your husband, who is sadly missing the point. I wonder if this is his way to avoid facing reality and managing his pain. He feels his son died for a higher purpose, and that is what he has by way of consolation. My heart is with him, too.

19

My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go.

could i come pick her up my wife asked me.

sure, i went over as soon as i could.. when i got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up.

dgp

So sad, Hamsterbait. What should be more private than your own ailments...

22

It's my Birthday!!!

by carpediem in

the first since leaving.

a sad state of affairs when the first person to wish me happy birthday was the windows live team lol.. anyway, i think i will be nice to myself today .

dgp

Happy Birthday, Carpediem! You chose a good nickname. Carpe diem!

19

My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go.

could i come pick her up my wife asked me.

sure, i went over as soon as i could.. when i got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up.

dgp

One more thing. Gary, you wrote about "offer comfort to patients in hospitals (kind of like a priest)". I am afraid the answer is a clear no. And the elder and his wife are my source on this.

Also, you wrote "He told me of a sister who the doctors were 'forcing blood' on and how they intervened for her and comforted her. I just nodded my head. The elder's wife told me how some of the 'mean doctors' would tell their patients that they 'are going to die.' Presumably for not accepting blood.".

What the elder told you is "we prevented the woman from accepting a transfusion". How did the doctor "force blood" on the patient? "Mean doctors"? Granted, doctors are far from perfect, but I am sure that they usually tell the truth when they tell patients they "are going to die" if they won't accept a transfusion, and I am sure they tend to see things from a strictly medical point of view, as in "you lost a liter and a half of blood. You'll die if you won't accept a transfusion", and I am sure that many doctors would cringe at letting a person die because of religious reasons. You have to know that, in my information, rules about how to deal with Jehovah's witness patients vary, but in many countries the doctor asks for a piece of paper to be signed in order to be released from any responsibility regarding the death of the patient.

I believe the blood issue is one of the areas where it should be easiest to prove the Watchtower dead wrong. By the way, the blood substitutes and fractions are always blood. Hemopure, I understand, comes from bovine blood. Maybe witnesses can take it because Jehovah didn't supposedly ban "bovine blood", only "blood".

19

My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go.

could i come pick her up my wife asked me.

sure, i went over as soon as i could.. when i got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up.

dgp

Straight from "In Search of Christian Freedom", from the chapter titled "The Misuse of Disfellowshipment", page 353:

"Of a quite different nature, but illustrating the same attitude, is the case in 1982 of George West, an elderly witness associated with the Maynard, Massachussetts, congregation of Jehova's witnesses. He developed bone cancer and in time deteriorated to the point of requiring hospitalization as a terminal case; his head was supported in a cage arrangement since his neck bones could no longer bear the weight.

Local elders heard that George West had submitted to a blood transfusion and made several attempts to try to talk with him, in spite of his extreme condition and against his wife's wishes. Finally, one evening they succeeded in getting in to see her husband and under interrogation he acknowledged having accepted the transfusion. His reason? His children from a previous marriage had heard he was dying and called to let him know they were coming from the Midwest to visit him at the hospital. He had not seen them since childhood. He decided to take the transfusion to extend his life a little longer in order to be reunited with his children.

The elders disfellowshipped George West only days before he died".

A footnote to this paragraph appears in the book: "These facts were printed in a letter to the editorial column of the Concord Monitor of December 8, 1984. No one did, or could, refute them".

I speculate that the children were not Jehovah's witnesses, and that could have been the reason why Mr. West had not seen them. I don't know for sure, of course. But, do we see Christian love in action here?

19

My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go.

could i come pick her up my wife asked me.

sure, i went over as soon as i could.. when i got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up.

dgp

Correct me if I am wrong. I understand that a witness is expected to abstain from blood, which, in their point of view, means they are not to eat blood sausage, for example, but they are also not expected to accept a blood transfusion. I understand that religions have to set guidelines of behavior, and I understand that all religions want their members to be saved. But I fail to see why a liaison committee is necessary.

If a person wants to accept a transfusion and take his or her chances at disfellowshipment, that is his or her business. The person knows he or she might get disfellowshipped if someone finds out about the transfusion. The person is also the sole owner of his or her own life, and is the sole responsible for the chances he or she might take with God, Jehovah or the Spaghetti Monster. There would be no disfellowshipment if nobody knew. Which means that Jehovah doesn't see everything after all and if the elders were not there the fun of disfellowshipment would be lost the elders feel they need to be there. Is the liaison committee really there to help, or is it there to a) prevent the person from accepting blood, or b) making sure the transgression is documented and they can proceed to disfellowship someone. Is this Christian love?

Picture two witness parents with a two-year old child who might die without a transfusion. The parents would refuse to the transfusion. The liaison comittee would be there to make sure no blood were given. And, WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD? His or her opinion would not matter, thank you, even if the life in danger would be his or hers. Replace "two-year old child" with "unconscious 67 year old" and the moral problem is the same: someone else gets to decide whether another person lives or dies. And the liaison comittee is there to make sure they take the one road that makes survival least likely.

1

Have You Been Offered A Bible Study and Don't Know What To Say?...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks, i received an e-mail a couple days ago offering me a bible study through e-mail.

basically going through chapter by chapter what's in the bible, i made a video about my response.

i figured it might help some people who's family is asking them to study the bible with them and they're trying to avoid it.. .

dgp

This can be commented at several levels.

The first one would need to be what "Bible study" means. In the Jehovah's witnesses lingo, it means accepting a presentation of the society's doctrines and being open to convert to them. It does not really mean "studying the Bible" in other senses, such as, for example, analyzing the book from a secular perspective.

If you want to refuse, I guess the more polite and honest answer would be something like "No, thanks".

If you have other purposes in mind, the "e-mail Bible study" could be used to ask the witness uncomfortable questions and encouraging him or her to research the religion. I don't think this would work very much, however, as it would be very easy to simply block this kid of questions or stop corresponding with the person.

35

How do I help my kids not buy into the JW thing?

by Judc in

jw
friends

first a little bit about myself.

i'm not a jw.

but i'm married to a jw lady who is very dedicated to it all.

dgp

I want to start my post with truth: "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". You have come to the right place to know that "The Truth" is but a big lie, and not only that, but the source of terrible misery for many. In my humble opinion, you have to tell your children the truth. It will shine on its own, and will prevent them from wasting their lives, and, just as a witness is impossible to convince when on "defense mode", your children won't be converted no matter how hard anyone tries.

I am an unbeliever, worldly, whatever. So I am on your side of the fence.

I think you should try to send messages to Gary Neal, Greenie and Confuzzled. They are all "worldlies" like me. Gary Neal is married and has a daughter, and therefore he may have one thing or two to share with you, and you with him. Gary has a channel on You Tube, too.

You need to be careful because your wife, your children's mother, is a good woman with good morals. She is doing what her conscience tells her she should do. She is not taking the children to the Kingdom Hall because she believes they will be damaged. Try to tell the truth about her, too. She's a great woman, only a mistaken one.

I suggest that you read a lot, in this forum, and in Free Minds and JWFacts. You can find those with Google (I don't remember the web links). Depending on how you think your wife would take it, you could get "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom", by Ray Franz, and "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds" by Steven Hassan. Read them, and you will have some more ideas about how to fight this. Also, your wife might be tempted to read them, and might just be helped to leave The Lie.

Be patient, and read, read, and read. Be very careful what you do.

I am of the opinion that, if the general public knew how witnesses look down on "worldlies", many people would never join the society. I guess your children wouldn't, either.

Make sure you help your children see the truth and stay free.

24

Holy spirit making its first mistake

by stillin9 in

well, it seems like that the holy spirit is making its first mistake!

they want to appoint me as a ministrial servant!

i wonder if that means that apostasy while being apointed as a ms is okay?!

dgp

Have you thought that maybe the're offering this because they have noticed something has changed, but can't pinpoint exactly what, and are giving you more responsibility so you stay in?