Posts by dgp

48

What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

my jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.

she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.

she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.

dgp

About Ouija boards:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Ouija

Following its commercial introduction by businessman Elijah Bond in the late 1890s, the Ouija board was regarded as a harmless parlor game unrelated to the occult until American Spiritualist Pearl Curran popularized its use as a divining tool during World War I. [ 3 ] Mainstream Christian religions and some occultists have associated use of the Ouija board with the threat of demonic possession and some have cautioned their followers not to use Ouija boards. [ 4 ]

When I was a kid, a very interesting neighbor of ours had one such boards (she claimed to be a Mormon, by the way), and we kids got to play "spirits" with it. I had gone crazy before that, so the board -or the demons- aren't to blame here. I say "interesting" because the lady would be material for a book. AND she was hot, too. I remember that, and I was a kid.

35

Where the need is great

by noontide in

jw
friends

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wow, havent been around here in a while and it's nice to see some familiar names as well as new ones.. .

well, its that time of year again when some members of my family decide that they need to go preach where the need is great.

dgp

Well, not that I want to defend the Watchtower, but you can't preach anything in Muslim countries without risking your life. I certainly understand that they don't preach in, say, Saudi Arabia. We should not forget that the killing in Darfur, for example, is simply about religion: Muslims killing everyone else.

I noticed this comment:

It's because the JWs can only be effective in areas with a Christian populace. Once they head into an area without a Christian base, their "We're better than other strains of Christianity" message falls flat.

I remember Ray Franz made a similar remark about the progress of Jehovah's witnesses in Africa. In my humble opinion, it is very true, and I have a personal anecdote to back this up. My mother is friends with a (Catholic) priest who is actually a missionary in Africa. The man said that preaching to non-Christians is extremely frustrating in the sense that they don't believe the message. That, however, does not square quite well with the fact that Christians are experiencing very rapid growth in Africa, Catholics included (if I remember correctly).

I can but remember the story -not told by this priest- that Africans laughed when missionaries spoke about the Virgin Birth. They just couldn't believe it. Sometimes they would joke and ask whether the missionary got the information right. It doesn't make much sense, really.

216

Religious Reform

by Maze in

as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?

the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.

1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .

dgp

Good question, Yan, only I won't be holding my breath

13

Do you know of any other religious organization that ex members try to put an end to it?

by jam in

jw
friends

i have heard ex members of the mormon faith speak about.

the injustice once they leave, but it,s not about the doctrine.

but the shunning.

dgp

Some former Catholics are very bitter about their having belonged to the church, for several reasons.

One, Catholics don't (usually) go as far as Jehovah's witnesses in making you swallow the faith, but they used to. Some people remember their childhood as a terrible thing.

As you can imagine, those who had the horrible experience of being raped by a priest who was later helped by the Church are not very happy about it.

Some other Catholics, usually the ones who didn't really behave, find themselves in situations they don't like and go the fundamentalist way. These ones are very bitter about their having been Catholics, but I'm afraid the reasons are not theological at all. It's just that they want to feel they are better now.

Some former Catholics get elected as presidents (or important members of a party) and they do want to destroy the Catholic Church. Again, the reason is not theological; it's just that the church is another enemy. This happens where the Church was very much instrumental in mantaining the establishment in place, such as Mexico and Spain. Maybe Italy would be in this situation as well. Castro very much succeeded; he almost wiped the Catholic Church out of Cuba.

And some former Catholics become atheists and then they want the Church to end, but usually through non-violent mechanisms. They just want the people to stop believing.

That said, I may be wrong but I don't think there are many fora like this one against the Catholic Church. You do undergo stuff, but it is usually not as serious as you do under the witnesses. The only exception, to my knowledge, is found in the (former) members of the Opus Dei, which a good number of Catholics consider crazy (I mean, the Opus Dei). I find the Opus Dei very much like the Watchtower in terms of its control of people.

The Catholic Church has a much longer history and a more variegated record of getting involved in worldly affairs. Some people cordially hate it, most others don't, really. Except perhaps for JW's.

48

What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

my jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.

she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.

she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.

dgp

People who believe in demons aren't likely to be convinced that they don't exist. I say, don't waste your time.

May I mention, just in passing, that Ambrose Bierce - in his "Devil's Dictionary" noticed that apparently apparel also has a spirit, since ghosts are always seen wearing clothes?

216

Religious Reform

by Maze in

as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?

the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.

1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .

dgp

Question from the worldly. Is it like this when you talk to an active Jehovah's witness?

"Say one thing about the organization that needs reform".

"It is beyond reform. It needs to be dumped".

"So far, no one has mentioned one thing about the organization that needs reform".

11

Is the panic button about to be officialy pushed? :D

by TimothyT in

tonight i was invited out by some jw friends.

i dont mind hanging out every now and then with them at all as long as they dont start bugging me about why im no longer going to meetings or on the the ministry.

anyway... guess what one of them started to do???.

dgp

I wouldn't know, but I think you and I would agree that it's best to be out, and, therefore, your concern should instead be what you're going to do after they "push the button", not "if" they will. Eventually, they will. You just need to be ready for that moment.

216

Religious Reform

by Maze in

as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?

the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.

1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .

dgp

I beg to differ, kind of. I think the Watchtower is beyond reformation. It needs to be dumped. None of it can be saved or recycled.

As to dumping all the people who sin in "Christendom's churches", wasn't Jesus supposed to have said that he is not here for the just, but for the sinners? He who is free of sin should throw the first stone? What about those words about "not everyone who calls me Lord (sorry, Kyrios) will be with me"?

5

Help me ID the Logical Fallacy, Please!

by Yan Bibiyan in

spoke to a friend of mrs. - a fairly involved sister - and asked the question:.

"circa 1850, small town usa, i am somewhat of a sinner - no murderer or anything, but could live a more productive life - one day i have a vision that my ways are wrong and the only way to redeem myself is to serve the only true god.. which organization do i join, which bible do i read and who provides my timely spiritual food?.

her answer - "well we can't be sure, but we shouldn't doubt jehovah had provided for the faithful christians through his holy spirit".. this seems like two fallacies into one answer - it looks like a red herring, because she sidestepped the issue, and it also looks like a straw man, because i didn't doubt jehovah, i doubted the wt's "always had an org" story.. so is it a red herring, straw man or maybe red man or straw herring, since it's a combo.

dgp

I think it's all three things at the same time.

51

I have just left my parents home and the JW's about six months ago and have found it hard to get over.

by StephanieH in

i finally desided to leave the witnesses therefore my family and basicly everyone and everything i had ever known.

i was 19 about to be 20 and i had just finished my first semester at a community college.

i was shocked at the respons of my father and others about me attending college at first they were ok but behind my back they were pretty much betting on my failier.

dgp

Welcome, Stephanie. Be strong, because you're on the right path.