GapingMouth

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Posts by GapingMouth

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  10

  Disfellowshipping reasons

  by GapingMouth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i grew up as a dub, and i was taught that there weren't specific reasons why people got disfellowshipped.

  i was taught they didn't announce what the wrong was as they were df'd because they were 'unrepentant'.

  now i know the wts is full of **** and i see a few posts about tattoos and piercings etc being cause for df'ing.

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  GapingMouth

  Thanks guys, I'd like to hear more and how elders do JCs. And a link for elders book?
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  33

  Does everyone else get this reaction from their JW family when discussing objections to the religion?

  by jambon1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when pointing out my objections to the jw religion with my wife, i have noticed a worrying trend which even after 3 or 4 years shows no sign of relenting.. after speaking calmly for an hour or so and logically pointing out my objections, my wife starts to put forward outrageous assertations about my points.

  for instance, if i am refering to the fact that disfellowshipping is a form of extreem punishment & i mention the terrible effects that being d/f'd can have on people, she will eventually retort with something like "so what you are saying is that we should tolerate paedophiles, rapists & thieves in the organisation then?".

  of course, i've never at any point said anything of the sort.. or if i have been overly critical of the amount of control the society wants over peoples lives, she would reply "so what you are saying is that we should all just go out & do what we want, get drunk & live an immoral life?

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  GapingMouth

  Absolutely. I told my wife less than a month ago that I didn't want to be a witness. Since then we've had a lot of conversations. I showed her the reigns of Babylonian Kings from the WTBTS literature and nada. I told her contradictions in the Bible. Basically it came down to this : she thought the wts were the only sincere ones on the planet and the dates didn't matter to her. Whenever I think I have made an excellent point she gets angry and says something completely illogical. Its still early days, but I can see this trend continuing. She said 'its better we don't talk about this subject'. Doh!
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  10

  Disfellowshipping reasons

  by GapingMouth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i grew up as a dub, and i was taught that there weren't specific reasons why people got disfellowshipped.

  i was taught they didn't announce what the wrong was as they were df'd because they were 'unrepentant'.

  now i know the wts is full of **** and i see a few posts about tattoos and piercings etc being cause for df'ing.

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  GapingMouth

  Hi all, I grew up as a dub, and I was taught that there weren't specific reasons why people got disfellowshipped. I was taught they didn't announce what the wrong was as they were df'd because they were 'unrepentant'. Now I know the WTS is full of **** and I see a few posts about tattoos and piercings etc being cause for df'ing. So forgive my ignorance but please can someone clear this up for me. If there are things you can get df'd for, what are they? Can I see a full list? Also, where can I read an elders 'manual' that I hear so much about? Thanks in advance and I wanr to say I absolutely love JWN. What a great place that helped me through a lot and has so much info. Thanks to all of you out there. GapingMouth
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  9

  Pastafarian blog

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after leaving jws i have found myself increasingly impatient with religion and just how stupid some things are that people believe.

  i understand not all of you on here are atheists, but i wanted to point out my new blog.

  in my blog i am a believer that the spaghetti monster exists and base my writings as such.

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  GapingMouth

  Wow guys! I wasn't expecting so much positive feedback. Thanks so much! Feel free to subscribe and leave comments - it all helps attract more readers! I feel very chuffed right now!
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  33

  Asking for money at the hall.

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't go to the meetings anymore for i am fading, but a short while ago something happened in a meeting i'd never seen in my entire life as a jw.

  the local needs discussed the fact that the local branch had bought a new kh for a whopping 1 million euros.

  that's insane, but not the part that got me.

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  GapingMouth

  Actually, yes, I'd say its wrong. Why? As already mentioned, they have loads of money already. Your average JW gave up a decent paying job to keep a simple eye or from being discouraged to go to college. They sinply don't have the money. Also, if it was for business, they should as the brothers and sisters before they go buying it. You wouldn't buy a house without going to the bank and making sure the money was available. And if the brothers and sisters all contributed to it, surely they should get some money back when they sell it (as also mentioned above). So no, it doesn't make good business sense nor is it moral, in my opinion. Its like a rich man asking the poor for some salt to put on his feast table.
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  33

  Asking for money at the hall.

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't go to the meetings anymore for i am fading, but a short while ago something happened in a meeting i'd never seen in my entire life as a jw.

  the local needs discussed the fact that the local branch had bought a new kh for a whopping 1 million euros.

  that's insane, but not the part that got me.

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  GapingMouth

  Hi all, I don't go to the meetings anymore for I am fading, but a short while ago something happened in a meeting I'd never seen in my entire life as a JW. The local needs discussed the fact that the local branch had bought a new KH for a whopping 1 million Euros. That's insane, but not the part that got me. They discussed the need to cover the costs and encouraged all to donate. They IN THE TALK handed out little pieces of paper and asked everyone to write a sum on it that they WOULD DEFINITELY donate towards the hall over the course of one year. Then they were told any donations towards the hall should be in seperate envelopes and marked as such. So a few things... Aren't the donations for the world wide work supposed to cover these things? After all the fuss of 'the widows might' and just donating what they can and not having to tell people how much, it seems hypocritical to me that they ask in this way. What do you guys think, and have you had similar experiences? And by the way, they obvioulsy have no business sense, there is no way it was worth a million euros. Makes me wonder if they are lieing to get more donations or they are just plain idiots. Probably both. GapingMouth
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  9

  Pastafarian blog

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after leaving jws i have found myself increasingly impatient with religion and just how stupid some things are that people believe.

  i understand not all of you on here are atheists, but i wanted to point out my new blog.

  in my blog i am a believer that the spaghetti monster exists and base my writings as such.

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  GapingMouth

  Hi all, After leaving JWs I have found myself increasingly impatient with religion and just how stupid some things are that people believe. I understand not all of you on here are atheists, but I wanted to point out my new blog. In my blog I am a believer that the spaghetti monster exists and base my writings as such. For atheists or just former JWs, you may find it entertaining. At least have a look? Check it out, read in more detail what it is about. Even if no one likes it, it helps me blow off steam. Thanks. www.kingagag.wordpress.com
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  47

  WTS causing more anguish

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

  but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

  i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

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  GapingMouth

  To those who have posted encouraging and supportive words, I thank each and every one of you. You are helping me to feel I am not alone and I am not stuck in a corner.

  To those who tried preaching to me their own beliefs or hikacked the thread, why? Those who did such a thing ignored my specific request NOT to do that. It's that behaviour that is wearing me down from the WT and my local congregation. While some of you may have meant well, this was not the place to do it.

  I keep going back and forth between telling my wife and then not... it's so hard. I'm trying to take it slow but it literally takes up each hour of my day. I can't stop thinking about it. I had a conversation with my wife the other day where I ended up saying something about the 607 fallacy. My wife didn't appreciate the importance of such a thing and the 1914-1919 faithful and discreet slave yadda yadda... she said "even if they were wrong and liars, wher else would I go?" quoting the scripture along the same lines...

  So can any of you give me some constructive advice on how to explain better a few things? How do I 'argue' that the 607 date is wrong when she believes 'scientists have been wrong many times' and won't cave in? How can I explain with only the WTS publications the importance of this? I may have made a little breakthrough at least showing I had valid concerns and I need to follow it up correctly. I'm sure there must be threads that discussed this, so if you point those out it'd help at least.

  Thanks

  GapingMouth
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  47

  WTS causing more anguish

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

  but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

  i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

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  GapingMouth

  My research on whether there is a God or not was not limited to one book, Passwordprotected, although I appreciate the advice. It was many things that convinced me, and the creationist argument played just a part in it. As I said, I am more concerned about the Governing Body dictating.
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  47

  WTS causing more anguish

  by GapingMouth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

  but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

  i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

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• 

  GapingMouth

  Hello to everyone,

  I don't really know where to start on my first post; I feel I have so much to say and yet I am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head. But, I do need support and advice and so I will make the effort.

  I started having doubts about certain beliefs of the Witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that I now come to the belief there is no God, and Witnesses definitely are a cult.

  At first it bothered me more on the God issue, but now I am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though I am aware of it.

  When I was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me I will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness. I think, as well as many other pressures I cant list for fear of a VERY long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though I wasn't that happy being a witness. I used to think it was because I was young and I found the meetings boring, not because it was complete rubbish, that I didn't enjoy it. Indeed for some time, I genuinely believed what the Witnesses preach.

  I'll come back and and explain my path in those 2 years I mentioned, I think. Someone raised a few good questions about God that got me thinking. I was on holiday and when I went to the airport I saw 'The God Delusion' and although feeling a little guilty, picked it up. I read the entire book cover to cover before we landed. I felt like I was walking off the plane not only in a different country but a different person.

  But, as you know, the mind-controlling aspect of the Witnesses caused me to doubt my new beliefs. Was I simply believing them because I was just bored of the meetings and ministry? It required much more research, although now I was prepared to look away from just the Society's books.

  I expressed some concerns to my wife early on. I wanted her to know I was on an honest search rather than just springing it on her in one foul sweep. She knew I was researching and each day I would say one or two more things I found. She always listened and respected I was searching, but our conversations would only go so far before I'd have to stop them for fear of a big argument or something.

  I went to the elders, more so for my wife who requested it than for myself, and expressed I was having some doubts. They said a few "encouraging" words and arranged for a second meeting.

  I met them again a few days later, a little more cautious, and having seen how my wife was growing increasingly concerned with my lack of faith, decided I was going to lie to them, saying that thanks to a lot of prayer and research, my faith in God is restored and I am on the path to strengthening my relationship with God again.

  My wife attended the session (The Elders request - I don't know if its in case they thought I was keeping things from her or to put me on the spot...) and I explained the above paragraph. I feel bad I lied, but I honestly felt, and still do, I was on the brink of losing her and things just going from bad to worse.

  "Okay," the one Elder said, and then pulled a sheet of paper from his briefcase, "I actually printed off an article I'd like to talk to you both about." It was about how we, in a scriptural sense, should view animals. I have many pets, and he thought it was too many (especially as my wife was pregnant at this time). I couldn't believe that something as important as a 'sheep' saying that he no longer knew if he wished to be in the 'flock of gods people' was settled in seconds and he had actually come to the meeting with this alternate material to discuss.

  It wasn't the first time he had spoken on this subject to me, but I had considered the info and decided I was keeping all my pets (They even want to control this now). I explained to him that as the head of my family, I had taken the information into consideration and after much deliberation had decided how to proceed for MY family and that I didn't want to hear the material again.

  (SOrry this post is getting really long, but I'm getting some stuff off my chest too :-( )

  At my saying this, he got really angry, visibly rolling his eyes at me and starting to shout so I asked the other elder to conclude the session.

  Despite agreeing with me that the Elder had gone over the top, my wife didn't think as badly of it as I. Again, my eyes were opened to a new side of the Witnesses I had been hidden from in my childhood (did I mention I was born into the religion?).

  Anyway I'll cut a long story short. I tested the waters with my wife and although she says she'd respect my new beliefs, I know for a fact she would think less of me and our relationship would be very damaged.

  I love my wife very much and I feel bad that I am covering up every day the fact I no longer wish to be a Witness. At the same time, I can't bear to hurt her by saying how I really feel. She talks of her dreams to 'get married, and now pioneer with my husband' that if I express my thoughts on this, I will literally crush her (controlled by a cult or not, her feelings are real).

  Secondly, I have a daughter. The timing was a little inconvenient as she was pregnant before I changed my views. Now dealing with a painful divorce that would leave me pain for the rest of my life is one thing, but I could not deal with not seeing my wonderful daughter every day. My family divorced when I was a child and I developed OCD (to an extent) as well as other problems from the stress. I can not put my daughter through that. While my wife and I probably wouldn't divorce, it is still a risk that I can not take. I can't bare to lose them to the point I decided I must continue my fake-age.

  I've said enough, but I could go on.

  It's hard though, as I explained before, and that's why I am here. I need advice, friendship and support. I've read a few other threads and some of them were hijacked; I must request that doesn't happen here because I am really struggling and getting so depressed learning how to deal with this new situation.

  Thanks in advance.