Posts by simon17

23

25 ATTRIBUTES OF A CULT - How does the WTS rate?

by cantleave in

this list is taken from a college course called the psychology of fundamentalismoffered by the university of texas.

1. the leader is charismatic and often militaristically demanding.

2. the leader is always right.

simon17

The charismatic leader-by-committee actually does fit.

Ever seen how enthralled JWs are when they know a speaker is a GB member? Even if he is dull and boring they can say they were there when so-and=so gave the public talk. How exciting for them.

Sometimes it isn't the charisma of the person(s) but rather what people impose upon them.

No, not really. You're describing #3 (people view leaders with awe). The leaders themselves are pretty boring and reclusive almost.

The really interesting question, if you gave this list to a JW, how many would THEY identify as being true. Ten?

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

simon17

Folks, let me tell you what we are up against (in case there are some of you who don't know).

I showed this material to my wife (who knows of my skepticism, esp on this subject). Her response was: "I don't want to look at that! I think it's all bullshit! You have nothing to prove that what is being said is true. There is nothing to prove that what you are reading isn't all fabricated bullshit!

Say you are doing exactly what the Watchower said to do at the conclusion of the article: WHY NOT EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE FOR YOURSELF. Ask her why she isn't following the WT's very own direction

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

simon17

I summerized my own thoughts, paragraph by paragraph, along with some of the throughts of everyone here in a google document:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16wDBQn2xeVePilre174R5w8G2eONFF2gP7vFXRMMJTE/edit?hl=en_US

I may have made some errors or omissions, so I left it open to editing publicly. If you want to add anything, feel free. Unfortunately, the formatting got messed up as it converted to a google doc but oh well.

I also did not really get into the whole "70 years of serving vs 70 years of desolation" thing. Its a pretty minor point and although I agree with those here, thats not a very convincing line of argument either way.

18

DEBUNKING BIBLE MIRACLES: Joshua telling the sun to stand still

by Black Man in

jw
friends

so, i'd love to start some threads debunking biblical miracles as the fairytale fiction that they are.

the first i'd like to start off with is jehovah supposedly making the sun stand still to allow joshua's army enough daylight to conquer the amorites.

here's a quote sentex.net explaining why this would be completely impossible:.

simon17

You can't debunk a "miracle". By definition, a mircale is something that even believers realize they can't explain so they invoke an "all-mighty" creature as the explanation as to why this impossible thing happened. So there is no point in saying "this is impossible because...". They already know and accept that without God it wouldn't happen.

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

simon17

I discovered the purpose of these articles.

I received an email from an elder telling me there was more information on the subject and directed me to the latest 11/1 Watchtower.

There we go, subject addressed, shepherding call done.

I think this is GREAT actually. I'm expecting the same from an elder I've discussed this with and will simply say "oh yes I've read those already. They are among the most intellectually dishonest pieces I've seen yet. I'd be happy to sit down with you and point out the academic flaws, incorrect logic and false presumptions line by line with you."

Its very easy actually if you have even done the slightest bit of research. Some of the paragraphs in thre are just downright twisted and anyone (should) be able to clearly see the deviousness of it. Not quoting researchers. Switching between calender systems to fool people. Saying on thing, pretending to prove another. That article is a TRAINWRECK for anyone who is willing to sit down and look at the evidence and dishonest techniques of writing, researching, and presenting information

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

simon17

Is the sleight of hand you are referring to in regard to the fact that the 3rd Babylonian month (Simanu) matches up with May/June of the Julian Calendar.....not July? Therefore a lunar eclipse that occurred on July 15, 588BCE would be irrelevant?

I'm no calender expert but the eclipse occurred on the 15th day of the Babylonian month. That most likely matches to July 4th (correctly I presume?). Then they say an eclipse occurred on the 15th day of the Julian month in the year they want (588). Most will carelessly read: "oh, the eclipse was supposed to occur on the 15th... in 568 it occurred on the 4th but in 588 it occurred on the 15th. Clearly 588 is correct"

If that speculation is true that's really a dishonest way to write that paragraph.

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

simon17

They could have saved 10 pages of ridiculousness by the ONE sentence they had in Part I:

"So why do Jehovah’s
Witnesses hold to a date that differs
from widely accepted chronology by 20
years? In short, because of evidence within
the Bible itself."

End of story. The answers is: there is NO evidence for 607. But they believe 537 + 70 = 607 and the Bible prophetically said it would be 70.

Why try to twist all the evidence when you've already stated your intetion in paragraph 1 of the whole thing!?!?!

91

Awake! November 2011 - correct cover

by processor in

there was an error on the latest awake!

cover.

here is the correct version.. .

simon17

sigh....bioflex, don't you realize that by believing in a global flood you already believe in evolution?

Correction, super-accelerated evolution at a speed that is many orders faster than that suggested by ANY scientist in the world.

91

Awake! November 2011 - correct cover

by processor in

there was an error on the latest awake!

cover.

here is the correct version.. .

simon17

Its funny how the Bible is ALWYAS correct, but it ALWAYS lags behind science.

For centuries, all devout Bible believers knew the Earth was flat. All of a sudden, SCIENCE proves the Earth is round and first Bible believers reject it ,but when the evidence becomes overwhelming they change to: "Well the Bible said that all along."

For centuries, all devout Bible believers knew the Earth was created in 6 literal days (actually BECAUSE of the Bible). All of a sudden, SCIENCE proves the Earth is billions of years old. At first Bible believers reject it, but when the evidence becomes overwhelming, they change to "Well the Bible said that all along."

Probably a few centuries from now, the Bible will "prove" evolution as well.

So don't worry, science and religion always coincide eventually. Eventually religion is forced to accept what science already knows.

Its like prophecy. Bible prophecy is always correct but only after the prophetic act happens can we figure out what it means.

91

Awake! November 2011 - correct cover

by processor in

there was an error on the latest awake!

cover.

here is the correct version.. .

simon17

Why are you arguing about this. Of course everythign in the Bible is possible because whatever crazy thing happened in there, there's a very simple explanation: "God is all powerful and he did it". Duh. So any impossible impliation (among all the impossible implications from all the impossible stories), just simply say God waved a magic wand and made the impossible possible.