the wts seems to affirm a lot that adam's blunder really screwed up the earth, and that the earth was not meant to be this place full of killing, disease, death, pain, etc.. but according to the wts version of the story, did god create the earth with these types of features before adam even came on the scene?
the wts does not deny the existance of dinosaurs, who in their words were created prior to mankind during the 5th or 6th symbolic day-ages.
yet its clear from fossilized remains that dinosaurs killed each other, had a high mortality rate, often died young, suffered from disease such as cancerous tumors: .
One of my best friends says that Jehovah created dinosaurs so that we as humans today could have oil. Now I know how ridiculous he is...
In my discussions with one JW, they said the same thing. This is now the third time a JW has reverted to this, and none of them sound like critical thinkers so clearly this MUST have been in print or convention outlines or something at one time.
... appreciated !
as some of you know i've been logging my dreams since dec. of 2010 and am up to 184 pages worth now.
some of them have been disturbing dreams dealing with jw expereiences as i was a jw from birth until age 44 when i exited 9 years ago.
Interestingly the common theme here does not seem to be Armagehddon or mean people (flipper excluded maybe) or injustice... most of these seem to just be stuck, trying to get out, and having trouble figuring out how to do it. I think its clear that struggling through the process of finding an exit left the largest impression on many of us.
... appreciated !
as some of you know i've been logging my dreams since dec. of 2010 and am up to 184 pages worth now.
some of them have been disturbing dreams dealing with jw expereiences as i was a jw from birth until age 44 when i exited 9 years ago.
I've only had one and it is recurring.
I, for some reason, am living back at my parents house. Its Sunday morning and I reflect on my agreement to return to just the Sunday meeting since I was living in their household. I'm annoyed that I have to get ready. My mom calls to me and tells me I'm running late and to get dressed. I dont see a way to avoid this. I get dressed, eat breakfast and am at the meeting. I reflect at the meeting about a time when I was not going to meetings at all and long for that time again. At least, I think, I'm not going to the KH three times a week, but it is still frustrating to me that I had broken away completely from JWs and now am sucked back in to at least 1 meeting a week. I sit there, annoyed, half listening to the WT study. And then I wake up. It actually takes me a few minutes of being annoyed to realize that, no, I'm still not going to the meetings. Then I relax, calm down, and return to sleep.
i think 60% think or hope it's all what it's cracked up to be and the others are just there for different reasons.. what do you think?.
I won't try to come up with numbers because I don't think I can. However, it seems like a lot of older ones WANT to believe very, very badly. Some may fully believe...others, it's like they believe to some degree and try to believe the rest. As others mentioned, they are very afraid to leave all that they have ever known.
For younger ones...I don't know how many can really truly believe.
But it is a cycle. As the young ones grow up, and have given so much of their lives to the truth, they need to believe in its truth more and more and more. A lot of young ones may doubt but if they manage to stick in due to the peer pressure and the social seclusion, they will get more and more entrenched.
i have posted this experience of mine before- it's time to resurrect it again.. in 1999 i was in bed asleep and i had a dream- my father and i were shoping at a clothing store called fazios, that i hadn't been inside since i was a boy (closed for many years).
we were looking at some denim overhalls and in walks my mother and brother ( she died in 1991 and my brother had died five months previously).
they told my dad, it's time to go.
sounds like a JW mantra is still imbedded in your brain--
So you think that the current life is better? That we are healthier HERE than in the afterlife? That there is less pain here than in the afterlife?
Life is wonderful because I believe it is all we have. If I believed in a perfect painless beautiful afterlife with God and all my loved ones, I would not be so reluctant to see myself get there. And I especially would not feel at all reluctant to see my dad, old and alone, get there, most likely as soon as possible!
i have posted this experience of mine before- it's time to resurrect it again.. in 1999 i was in bed asleep and i had a dream- my father and i were shoping at a clothing store called fazios, that i hadn't been inside since i was a boy (closed for many years).
we were looking at some denim overhalls and in walks my mother and brother ( she died in 1991 and my brother had died five months previously).
they told my dad, it's time to go.
It's called LOVE-
What does that have to do with it? Do you not want him to go on vacations too? What is unloving about having him leave this difficult, diseased world where he is in declining health and away from the love of his life to go to a better world, with no problems, most of his family, and you one day to follow.
i have posted this experience of mine before- it's time to resurrect it again.. in 1999 i was in bed asleep and i had a dream- my father and i were shoping at a clothing store called fazios, that i hadn't been inside since i was a boy (closed for many years).
we were looking at some denim overhalls and in walks my mother and brother ( she died in 1991 and my brother had died five months previously).
they told my dad, it's time to go.
Well I'm happy to hear about your dad.
Odd you would be so insistent about your dad not dying in that case... seems like he had a nice place to go to and his wife and child to look forward to seeing...
if the tribulations started tomorrow, and all you knew of the bible was what the jws had told you, would you suddenly think, "they said this would happen, and it is, therefore they must be right", and go running back?.
or would you think, "just because eventually biblical prophiesies came to pass that "they" had read you from the bible, doesnt mean they are the chosen religion, because they get all these other doctrines wrong", and know these doctrines well enough to be able to convince yourselves.. .
replies such as "it wont happen cause its a fairy story" wont really help..
Of course. It is healthy and natural for any human to want to do anything (and I mean anything) in order to continue surviving. Anyone who says otherwise I believe either to be messed up in some way, or is just talking idealistically.
That said, it would have to be really clear. Not just some big disaster. It would have to be the UN turning on all religions, wiping them all out and having only JWs left, then the world turns on them, etc.
rule #1: give others the benefit of the doubt.. maybe this person has made the outrageous generalization isn't really insensitive.
maybe this person has had a painful experience that made them overreact.. .
rule #2: when disagreeing with someone, always take resonsibility for our own feelings.
Most important, perhaps: Validate the other person's emotions.
EndofMysteries when you called Bethel did you specifically mention DF members?
That's the thing, he specifically made it seem as if the person was having doubts, kept to themselves, and was NOT disfellowshipped.
Thats why I think he got the response he got, and I think the response is accurate to how the JW's are asked to behave. Some might be extreme and shun ANY person who has drifted away quietly. Some may not. And some may not really change their behavior with that one.
Disfellowshipped/disassociated ones is a totally different beast in WT world. Then, yes, they ARE expected to shun.
