simon17

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Posts by simon17

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  104

  Help me make sence of William Lane Craigs nonsense

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i tried to read a transcript of a debate william lane craig had a few years back.

  this particular argument which i have heard him give many times stumbled me for all the wrong reasons.

  the argument is as this: (http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/craig-smith_harvard02.html).

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  simon17

  Simon17,

  If your son asks you, "Is rape really wrong?" are you going to say, "It depends on who you ask. Cosmically, it's insignificant" and then talk about societal disadvantages and the lack of evolutionary advantage that would come from allowing rape?

  Or are you just going to say, "Yes, son, rape really is wrong"?

  What I tell my son is irrelevant.

  To answer your question anyway, of course I'm not going to tell a little kid what I just typed. Just like people don't tell their children the gory details of "where do babies come from." Just like even adults make up stories about where the dead go and how happy they are and such. Just because we lie to little children or to ourselves about what we would like to be true or what we feel should be true... it doesn't make it true.

  Beyond that, in our society, the way we have developed it IS wrong. So there is actually not an inconsistency in my saying to a child that rape is wrong. Is it an absolute TRUTH that rape is wrong? That I can't say, but it doesn't effect one iota of how I function as a human being.
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  104

  Help me make sence of William Lane Craigs nonsense

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i tried to read a transcript of a debate william lane craig had a few years back.

  this particular argument which i have heard him give many times stumbled me for all the wrong reasons.

  the argument is as this: (http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/craig-smith_harvard02.html).

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  simon17

  Why can't we just say there are no objective moral values and be done with it?

  Is rape wrong? Why can't I say "it depends on who you ask. In the cosmic sense, the act of rape may not be a significant thing one way or another. However, rape causes emotional suffering. From an evolutionary standpoint, it does not benefit a group to cause suffering and pain among members of your own species. So nature has taken most of the inclination to think of rape as "positive or good" out of our genetic makeup. In addition, our society cannot function if rape were allowed. We consider it illegal and we physically remove rapists from society (perhaps even killing them). So based on societal and evolutionary preferences, rape is a bad thing to do."

  Is it possible to have a people that consider rape acceptable? I don't know. Civilization existed a long time with slavery as an institution. We currently live in a society that breeds countless animals into a life of torture, hopelessness and execution. I'm sure there are civilizations which could be envisioned which would consider that "objectively morally wrong" and yet we do not.

  WLC would probably consider homosexuality to be objectively wrong in God's view. And yet society is changing its view on that, even though it was a cursed thing for thousands of years, perhaps viewed AS BAD or WORSE than rape. So even what humans "think" is an objective value might change.

  I argue that there are no objective values.
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  69

  Could ''boredom'' at the Kingdom Hall be one reason why some members leave?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you'll find boredom where there is the absence of a good idea earl nightingale quotes (us motivational writer and author, 1921-1989).

  let's forget that most members leave due to the wrong beliefs,doctrines and practices of the wts!.

  i was bored out of my mind from the repetitive: talks,prayers,ministry school demonstrations,field service talks(peddle magazines),assemblies,special talks and watchtower magazine study articles.

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  simon17

  So I must say...GO BACK TO THE 50's! There is no room for you here in the future!

  Sounds like James Earl Jones in Field of Dreams...

  (And you probably dont even know who i am but nice to see you back)
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  69

  Could ''boredom'' at the Kingdom Hall be one reason why some members leave?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you'll find boredom where there is the absence of a good idea earl nightingale quotes (us motivational writer and author, 1921-1989).

  let's forget that most members leave due to the wrong beliefs,doctrines and practices of the wts!.

  i was bored out of my mind from the repetitive: talks,prayers,ministry school demonstrations,field service talks(peddle magazines),assemblies,special talks and watchtower magazine study articles.

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  simon17

  It seems like they go out of their way to specifically make things AS BORING as possible. We used to have some brothers who were either very animated or would do comical things on Tuesday nights, or have parts that they dressed up to promote some theme. Those parts I remembered years more than the dry parts (and not just because they were cool -- i remembered the messages too). But they got talked to and had to stop. I dont really understand that. THese people would have asked MLKJr to read "I have a Dream" in more of a monotone ,seriously... its crazy.
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  42

  The Power of Prayer......Do you believe in it?

  by confuzzled777 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my sil has been fighting stage iv leiomyosarcoma (which in incurable) for over 2 years now.

  there have been quite a few ups and downs in her treatments and her prognosis along with way.

  she is a full time pioneer and has been since shortly after her diagnosis.

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  simon17

  Nope. I believe at best it has a 'placebo' affect for those who do believe in it.

  Well a placebo effect has been shown to have a very significant effect physically/medically speaking. I would bet the effect is even LARGER in the emotional/mental sphere.
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  47

  Private Discussion

  by besty in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  simon.

  as most people seem to have worked out the private discussion and support part of the forum is not private beyond requiring a username.. today nugget and cantleave are having printouts of their posts in this section being used in evidence at their jc.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/204436/1/nugget-and-cantleave-are-no-longer-jehovahs-witnesses.

  my suggestion is, if its possible, to create an invite-only section of the board for truly private support.. .

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  simon17

  I would think you could make a sub-group that you could only get into by agreeing to a waver like was mentioned by simon, but make it more objectionable like "by agreeing to become part of xxx group, you acknowledge that the FDS are not, or never have been, directed by God. blah blah blah..." I think at some point, agreeing to be part of that group would get you in just as much trouble as anything they could find in there. It would be like a JW signing the release form from the concentration camp... you couldn't just sign that and say "oh spiritual warfare, I could save more people while out of prison and not being executed"...
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  5

  A Publisher’s Guide to Unfair Disfellowshiping and Defamation of Character

  by Giordano in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a publishers guide to unfair disfellowshiping and defamation of character.

  is now posted on freeminds.org, i saved a copy in case the subject comes up as it will again and again.

  i'd like to be able to share good information about this issue.

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  simon17

  I think its a very nice attempt but ultimately this is a fight that you cannot win. Its like coming up with a legal argument why your lunch table in high school can't turn on you and make you stop sitting with them... if a bunch of people want to ignore you (the JWs), then they are free to do so. You can't MAKE someone keep you in a voluntary group.
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  91

  Population 7 billion. Changes ahead.

  by Lion Cask in

  1. social
  2. current

  according to the world population clock, we're going to hit the magic 7 billion number this year.

  that's 7,000,000,000,000 living human beings on this planet.

  the world is about to change, again.

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  simon17

  We will solve the problem of human aging: by 2050 we will have the technology to live as long as we choose to.

  That sounds nice human aging right now is the only good solution we have to the real problem of overpopulation. The exponential growth rate means that non-renewable resources are depleting at a increasing rate: those problems are going to come to a head in a matter of a few decades (maybe less). If you had unlimited aging within 50 years, that means you have to go from hundreds of millions of babies a year to ... basically none. And how are you going to start telling all these different countries to stop producing babies? You're saying that "oh well basically the birth rate will somehow come down". But then you also say, the death rate will drop to nearly zero. There's no way to bring those two concepts together, outside of being able to colonize other planets or solar systems (which we are nowhere near 50 years to being able to do)
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  31

  Voting a conscience matter??

  by Cynisister in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  happy new year one and all!,.

  the local elders sent a letter home with my hubby, pretty much stating that after "many" attempts to visit and speak with me, this letter is once again asking to meet because it came to their attention that i voted in the last pres.

  election.

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  simon17

  Hey you're perfectly ok I think:

  Bring a copy of the '99 article with you that makes voting a conscience matter. Say that, as they know, you've been away for a little bit, you thought this was the understanding, you're sorry if its not, and you won't vote anymore. Say you got a misimpression from that article, which is understandable.

  Then should then give you the corrected viewpoint, you accept it, and you should be fine.

  When your hubby's parents pass, then do what you want but just try to be quiet about voting until then.
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  22

  While in, did you ever rationalize questionable behavior, entertainment, even sin as justifide?

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not the biggest fan of depeche mode, but a couple of their albums were actually ok. there's one track by them i've always loved called, "strangelove" from their music for the masses album, and the lyrics remind me of my own thought process at times.

  the lead vocalist sings at one point, "i give in, to sin, because you have to make this life livable.

  looking back on it, i feel that i needed to watch that fight.

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  simon17

  Playing along to these comments as if I was MLE:
  
  He KNOWS it would be fun. He knows how to ask the girl out and have a good time and get her to like himm I'm guessing. But then what? Now you're stuck in a direction and no matter what happens, you're going to have to make some serious decisions which are going to hurt some people badly (her.. or family or friends... or yourself). It's easy to say "oh don't think about that." But how exactly does one turn their mind off to thinking about all these crazy consequences of being stuck in the middle of two worlds, not being sure which one to be in, and knowing you can't be in both? I haven't found a way to do that.