Posts by sd-7

It's from my favorite band, The Protomen. It's called "Keep Quiet", I think, from their new album, Act II: The Father of Death. Yes, shameless advertising. Hey, if the WT can do it...

Anyway, it just reminded me of the struggle for freedom of mind, freedom from indoctrination:

I've seen your face in the shadows
I've seen your face in the places
I wasn't meant to be
I hear them whisper about you
I hear the men in the bars
I see the women lock their doors at night
Lock your doors tonight
They say your eyes are on fire
They say you'll kill a man
For walking the wrong side of the line
But men, they say a lot of foolish things
In the end the only words I can find to believe in are mine

They say
This city
She's been dead for years now
For years now
So death is
Not something
Not something that scares me
There's worse things
Than death here
They tell me
Keep quiet

I will not be told where to stand
I will not be told what to say
Not by man or machine
Not by you, not by anyone tonight
Gonna have to do better than fear
Gonna have to step out of the shadows and fight
And when they see your face again
They will know what it means to have fear
Dragged out into the night
Drag it out!

They say
This city
She's been dead for years now
For years now
So death is
Not something
Not something that scares me
There's worse things
Than death here
They tell me

It's just...I wish I had more courage. It took so much out of me, all the research and effort trying to figure out what was really going on with the religion I'd trusted all my life. I went back to a meeting, not in my home cong., on Sunday. My beloved still believes in them. I try to hold onto my mind, but it's so hard sometimes. I'm afraid that she will choose the Borg over me. She thinks I don't care about the bad things we've done together. I do care. It's just...I don't see why we have to live in guilt and shame over things that aren't anyone's business anyway. The kind of guilt that the elders inflict is not the kind that helps people truly repent. In the end, punishment is all that really matters to them. How much actual time do they spend (feel like I'm quoting Ray Franz) trying to help restore someone's spirituality? Not much. The hearing is just to punish, then to tell the person to come to meetings for a year while being ignored, then write THEM a letter asking for reinstatement.

That's the part that really pisses me off, and normally I'd never write that kind of thing. But if I get DF'd it'll be a cold day in hell before I write them a letter asking THEM to let me back into a frakkin' cult. And how the heck does have a [blank] thing to do with your sins being forgiven? Did the guy in 2 Corinthians write a letter to the elders? NO! Is this another Legal Department thing? Probably.

I'll go back to the place for my beloved, and continue to look for ways to prove she's under mind control, someday. But I'm not going to ask them to be reinstated if they DF me. THEY will have to ask ME, if anything. If I repent of my sins, then God forgives me through Christ--that's how it works. My sins aren't in retention until I write a g[blank-blank] letter to some [blank-blank] men who will not and cannot stand before the judgment throne on my behalf.

I'm going back to my home meeting tonight. For a woman. And gosh, she's wonderful, but she really is awfully serious sometimes. I thought I took life too seriously. I didn't know the half!

Well...I'm feelin' a bit down. There are days I wonder if I love her more than I love freedom. But every day so far, the answer has been yes, without a shadow of a doubt. It's tough, staying with this crap and still wondering if somehow I'm wrong about 587 B.C. or the bizarre teachings back in the 1870s-1930s, etc. (I read part of The Harp of God on my Kindle not that long ago. Good Grievous! What kind of nutcase was Rutherford? This really is a cult if people accepted that crap!)

Well...I better get moving. Gotta keep my job--it's the last good, normal thing I have left.

SD-7

39

"My Book of Bible Stories" returned for being "too violent for kids." You Agree?

by Witness 007 in

obviously a book written for kids by old dumb morons at bethel the book starts with abels murder {with pictures for the kids} people begging to get into the ark before drowning to death...a good lesson for kiddies!

a women putting a tent peg thru someones temple {with pictures} moses killing an egyptian.

etc a horrified atheist lady returned the books my mother gave as "gifts" {count 2 placements} after seeing the horrific topics, she decided it was "not apropriate for her kids.".

sd-7

Hmm. Never thought about this. I mean, I remember the particularly brutal Cain and Abel picture, and the Flood picture. The most I can remember going through my mind was that "people died". I think I figured out that God kills people, that man kills people, and...well, there were lots of unspoken rules that developed for me as a JW child. Don't ask for anything, don't ask anything unless you want a beating--especially don't ask for food during field service. I assumed it was a guaranteed beating. But that's another story. I can see how people might think it was too violent. I guess I was probably exposed to violence enough on TV at that age that I didn't give but so much thought to it. Go figure.

SD-7

143

Does anyone think that maybe we're just wrong?

by paul from cleveland in

jw
friends

i was disfellowshipped in 1995. even though i lost my friends and family, i felt like i had been finally set free and was happy for many years.

while i was a jehovah's witness, i always felt so miserable.

i never felt like i was doing enough to please jehovah.

sd-7

If we are wrong, then try to imagine a world ruled by the Governing Body and the like. Any dissent will be met with an immediate death sentence, whether we've reached perfection or not. And remember, it'll take 1,000 years for us to do so. We will be completely dependent on these individuals to apply the value of the ransom sacrifice to our sins.

I'll be plain: do you really, truly want to spend eternity with the people you've met in the Borg? All of them? Only them? Some, sure. You don't think more murders and dirty business will be going on during the thousand years, too? Think again.

Hey, I say, at this point, I'm willing to be wrong. But a wise man who believes he's going to stand before the throne to be judged had better ham well have done his homework. If you worry that the JWs are right, then you need to examine both sides as carefully as possible. Then make your decision. Odds are you spent your whole life believing they were right in the first place. But that's what we were told; we never really had the chance to verify it independent of them. That being said, take the time to measure the JW religion and find out if its claims are true.

SD-7

4

The Great Timekeeper Guides Us in this Time of the End

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

october 15, 2020 publisher edition of the watchtower: "previously, this journal has explained how christ's invisible presence started in 1914, a date clearly pointed to in bible prophecy.

(daniel 4:10-17) it was felt that the "seven times" of daniel's prophecy, starting in 607 b.c.e.

and ending in 1914, was undeniable.

sd-7

October 15, 2020 Publisher Edition of The Watchtower: "Previously, this journal has explained how Christ's invisible presence started in 1914, a date clearly pointed to in Bible prophecy. (Daniel 4:10-17) It was felt that the "seven times" of Daniel's prophecy, starting in 607 B.C.E. and ending in 1914, was undeniable. However, this is not necessarily the case. Evidently, as in Daniel's time, there was a need to reevaluate the meaning of this divine prophecy in light of the calendar being used at that time. Using the 360 day calendar instead of the 365 day calendar results in a difference of 12,600 days. Thus, upon careful, prayerful consideration of God's Word, it has become evident that Jesus' invisible presence as King of God's Kingdom started in 1879.

"Does this year have any importance on the world scene? No. As was foretold by Jehovah's angel upon Jesus' ascension to heaven, Jesus' invisible return, "in the same manner" as he departed, would be discerned only by his faithful servants, those keenly alert to Bible prophecy. True Christians thus clearly see that, as Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence began to be published in 1879, it is reasonable to conclude that Christ's invisible presence certainly started then. After all, certainly there is no evidence of any other group making mention of God's Kingdom during that or any other era of modern history. Unlike apostate Christendom, with its focus on political alliances and false doctrines, the 'faithful and discreet slave' of modern times pointed to Jesus Christ's presence and to God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind.

"What does this mean for us? Should we reason, then, that because Christ has been invisibly present for 130 years, that the end of this wicked system is far off? Of course not. Such reasoning, in fact, is what the apostle Peter warned true Christians to be on guard against. (2 Pet. 3:3, 4) Rather than falling asleep like all others who claim to be Christian, true servants of Jehovah keep on the watch, knowing that "our salvation is nearer than when we first became believers." "

While you'd think pushing back the chronology would do unspeakable damage, we all know it would be welcomed. Hmm...I wish I had the humor of Farkel, or the Stephen Colbert-like savvy of All Time Jeff, or the no-nonsense demeanor of undercover. Or the quick wit of Outlaw. Or the ability to laugh at life like jamiebowers. Or even the once-cherished loyalty, devotion to an unfading standard of right, of Reniaa or Angel Eyes. I'd take any of those qualities now. ... It's time to go. Post-haste.

SD-7

6

Talk mentions earthquakes--I'm shaken, but not stirred...

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php.

found myself almost getting reassimilated as i listened to a public talk yesterday.

i was surprised at how much 'insider doctrine' was being spouted in a public talk--the need to obey the governing body (not god, the governing body), mentions of 1914 (though of course, explaining how the heck we arrive at that belief is not mentioned, the public would be mighty confused--oh, right, that's when they'll ask for a bible study), and the need to stay close to the organization (not god, but god's organization...), justification for the unscriptural practice of reporting field service time (in harmony with doublethink, god doesn't care how much time we spend, but the 'slave' just collects your time to keep an eye on your spirituality...oookay, so...if time isn't a measurement of our spirituality before god, then why are you keeping tabs on it?

sd-7

They mentioned a Stanford University study claiming that 184 earthquakes had happened in the last 3,000 years (perhaps they meant major quakes?) and that 84 of them had happened after 1914. No author or book mentioned, though. As usual. Guess the presence of the bibliography is also invisible and discerned only by Christ's true followers...

SD-7

6

Talk mentions earthquakes--I'm shaken, but not stirred...

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php.

found myself almost getting reassimilated as i listened to a public talk yesterday.

i was surprised at how much 'insider doctrine' was being spouted in a public talk--the need to obey the governing body (not god, the governing body), mentions of 1914 (though of course, explaining how the heck we arrive at that belief is not mentioned, the public would be mighty confused--oh, right, that's when they'll ask for a bible study), and the need to stay close to the organization (not god, but god's organization...), justification for the unscriptural practice of reporting field service time (in harmony with doublethink, god doesn't care how much time we spend, but the 'slave' just collects your time to keep an eye on your spirituality...oookay, so...if time isn't a measurement of our spirituality before god, then why are you keeping tabs on it?

sd-7

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php

Found myself almost getting reassimilated as I listened to a public talk yesterday. I was surprised at how much 'insider doctrine' was being spouted in a public talk--the need to obey the Governing Body (not God, the Governing Body), mentions of 1914 (though of course, explaining how the heck we arrive at that belief is not mentioned, the public would be mighty confused--oh, right, that's when they'll ask for a Bible study), and the need to stay close to the organization (not God, but God's organization...), justification for the unscriptural practice of reporting field service time (in harmony with DOUBLETHINK, God doesn't care how much time we spend, but the 'slave' just collects your time to keep an eye on your spirituality...oookay, so...if time isn't a measurement of our spirituality before God, then why are you keeping tabs on it?), etc.

I realized that it's fear-mongering--keeping the R&F on edge is vital. Still, it's powerful, especially when you feel scared and lost, like me ever since I found out the real deal. It felt right being there...so easy to go back even though I'll be DF'd sooner or later. My lady friend wants me to give a public talk someday..she doesn't what she's asking. She's asking me to make her a single mom again and devote my time to the Borg. I could become one with the Borg again. We could. All of you will be assimilated as well, soon enough.

Anyway, they mentioned a huge jump in earthquakes since 1914. The above article shows that by and large, (1) earthquakes are not on the rise and (2) our ability to record them has improved, and that would probably be the only reason for higher numbers.

I know plenty have posted on this before. I just needed to remember that this is not real. Grateful for the Internet. Got to post next time my crazy theory on 1914. Who watches the Watchtower? We do.

SD-7

9

"We will build towers to the heavens." "Man was not built for such a height."

by sd-7 in

this topic has almost certainly been discussed before, but it just popped into my head.

the title for this topic is a quote from a brilliant rock band called the protomen--for you video-gamers out there, if you've never heard of them, you should give 'em a listen on itunes or wherever.

they're incredible.

sd-7

Blue Grass -- to conclude that what I just said was a fallacy is a fallacy. You must understand the perspective I'm looking at this from. I agree with you, that in the overall Biblical theme, God does want people to unite. That's not the issue I'm addressing, per se; I didn't intend to make it seem otherwise, and if I did, my mistake. The issue I'm addressing, ultimately, is how this contradicts the Watchtower doctrine regarding sovereignty. I am saying that God's involvement at the Tower of Babel should have been unnecessary if the point of his allowing suffering was to prove that man could not rule successfully without him.

Obviously, God wanted man to unite--but under his rule, right? Right. The problem I see here is that he saw man uniting without him, and decided he couldn't allow it. The issue here is that the unity God prefers is apparently only unity that he permits, and the implications of that. Thanks.

SD-7

9

"We will build towers to the heavens." "Man was not built for such a height."

by sd-7 in

this topic has almost certainly been discussed before, but it just popped into my head.

the title for this topic is a quote from a brilliant rock band called the protomen--for you video-gamers out there, if you've never heard of them, you should give 'em a listen on itunes or wherever.

they're incredible.

sd-7

This topic has almost certainly been discussed before, but it just popped into my head. The title for this topic is a quote from a brilliant rock band called The Protomen--for you video-gamers out there, if you've never heard of them, you should give 'em a listen on iTunes or wherever. They're incredible.

On to the topic. Genesis recounts a story of the Tower of Babel. If you're here, I'm sure you know what happened there--God sent an angel to confuse the language of man, thus preventing them from finishing the tower. Thus the origin of man's many languages, right?

Certainly some of you don't believe that story happened, and to each his own on that. This thought popped into my head, however. God saw mankind united on a project. He then reasons, look--they've got one language and now they're building this great tower. If they keep this up, nothing will be impossible for them. So let me go down and confuse their languages. Right? Okay. Two issues come up, now that WT indoctrination is not the guiding force for my thoughts:

1. According to the Bible, God himself recognized that humanity, if united, could accomplish ANYTHING. (This begs the question of why the Society insists on demeaning human accomplishments to no end [see Wonders of Creation DVD]--but we already know the answer. It's just a means of introducing the carrot of the Kingdom to the disillusioned.)

2. God himself, then, is responsible for man's inability to unite. He saw man's unity, and saw fit to disrupt it himself! What does that say about God, that he would do that?

In pondering this, the implications are troubling to my cult personality. ... The Society consistently teaches that God allowed Adam and Eve and Satan to continue to exist in order to prove that man alone could never successfully rule himself. Then, when man unites and begins an unprecedented construction project, God personally intervenes to disrupt it. Is it possible, then, that God was afraid to be proven wrong? If indeed, his motive was what the Society claims it was, then why did he feel a need to interfere? If man could not rule himself, then why was there a need for God to get involved? Would not this project have failed on its own, thus proving him right?

At the very least, it indicates to me that the issue of sovereignty is an invention of the Society and was probably not on God's mind nearly that much. At worst, it indicates that God's m.o. is identical to the Society's m.o.--he acts for one reason and one reason alone: to maintain authority. Not out of love, or out of 'zeal for his name', or anything else. Just like men, he just wants to stay in power. So he would take anything and everything from man in order to keep him dependent on divine rulership. Is this what a God of justice would do? Intentionally frame mankind in order to bias the results of the test of who has the right to rule?

This may be familiar ground for you, but the more I'm away from the Watchtower's influence, the more little thoughts like this keep coming up. I want to believe in God as my heavenly Father, as the loving Father that Jesus showed to us in his time on earth. I want to have that faith. But it is difficult when faced constantly with only a religion that misrepresents him as authoritarian and cruel, unrelenting and unreasonable, only out to punish and nit-pick.

Any thoughts you have on this will be welcome, no matter how much sacrilege you commit in the process...(sigh) I really have become a monster, after all...

SD-7

1

Looking for someone I used to know...

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

don't know if this belongs in the reunions section, but i was thinking, once i woke up, about someone i knew growing up who became an 'apostate'.

i'd love to talk to her again, see where she is in life.

so i'm reaching out to see if anyone knows her.. her name was cynthia smith--folks always called her 'cindy'.

sd-7

Don't know if this belongs in the reunions section, but I was thinking, once I woke up, about someone I knew growing up who became an 'apostate'. I'd love to talk to her again, see where she is in life. So I'm reaching out to see if anyone knows her.

Her name was Cynthia Smith--folks always called her 'Cindy'. Last I heard she was in Minnesota, had married a Caucasian fellow. She's of African-American descent. Probably in her late 30s or early 40s. Used to be a pioneer--sharp-as-nails, partially deaf in one ear, I believe. Don't know if she ever came back to the Borg--I'm assuming no, or else I'd have seen her somewhere. Anyone out there know her? I'd love to catch up with her someday. Just send me a PM or reply here if you can help me find her.

If you're out there, someone from back home woke up and would like to touch bases with you again. I wish you well.

SD-7