Posts by sd-7

33

Human Apostates and the Power of the Internet

by SeventhSojourn in

sd-7

Okay, I couldn't resist watching the rest. Wow...it's such an emotional thing we've all had to go through. So many stories I've heard from so many people, and it reminds me that I was probably pretty fortunate in my own way.

So that I wouldn't struggle with the same emotions you expressed about your mom, I pretty much had to shut myself down emotionally and be as detached as possible. I have no real relationship with my mom, haven't heard from my brother in ages, haven't heard from or seen my aunt or my cousins in years. If I thought about that, really thought about it, I probably couldn't accept it. But I reached a point where I no longer cared. I felt like...if they're willing to shun me, then I have no room in my heart for them ever again. Emotional overload in the end just forced me to become a cold person and empty out as many of my emotional attachments as possible.

But you definitely made me smile when you spoke of living an authentic life. Ultimately that's what we win back when we start thinking for ourselves.

It's clear that JWs are not individually evil people, but there is evil in the ideas being promoted from the top down. I knew someone who became an 'apostate' years ago, and I figured that probably whoever convinced her--she was really smart--to leave the JWs must've been very smart indeed to do so. But I left it alone because I knew such thoughts weren't an option. But as I read more in the Watchtower about apostates--in fact I was even assigned to give a talk on that subject years ago--I realized that there really wasn't much of anything specific that they were doing wrong. It was almost entirely an attack on their personality traits. I especially noticed that there was this unhealthy fear of apostates that said to me, what are you so afraid of? What is it they know that's so dangerous?

So when I was emotioinally fed up, the light finally came on that something was wrong, and 4 years ago, I made the choice to open that door and find out what this was all about. It's been a bumpy ride, but worth the trouble, to be sure.

I hope you find comfort in your freedom. Thanks again.

--sd-7

33

Human Apostates and the Power of the Internet

by SeventhSojourn in

sd-7

Apostate Chick--I, too, watched 6 minutes of said video, but having drank deeply of the dark side, I was content to be fascinated by your mind rather than merely your beauty (though, I just had this thought of Wonder Woman all of a sudden). I only stopped watching to conserve bandwidth, I shall have to catch the rest of it later.

Anyway, you nearly made me cry. What you said really is at the heart of why we're so concerned about these kinds of talks being given at convention programs.

This brings to mind an unpleasant discussion I recall having with my JW wife (you can read my story, it's all over this site on my threads, just click on my username and 'Topics Started' (the judicial committee threads called 'Borg Court' [on page 5 or 6 of my Topics Started] were particularly action-packed)) about this sort of thing. She couldn't understand why I was having trouble separating her from her beliefs. And it's because of this--she is literally being trained to view me, her husband that she has vowed to love and cherish, as Satan's MasterChef, to put it simply, and somehow I should be completely unaffected by it? I should sit there at programs with our children and subject my very nature to absolute character assassination with slurs, innuendos, name-calling and straw men offered up as proof?

See, she doesn't have the right to disagree with that assessment; no matter what kindnesses I perform as a husband and a father, she must view me as this monster because that's what came down from the platform and blared out of the speakers to 6,000 people. That's what's in the literature (a lot of that talk was cut-and-pasted, word for word, from last year's Watchtower article and the Reasoning book). Whereas I have the option to view her differently based on how she treats me and the way she cares for our kids and our home. It's hard, but I have that option. That's where we differ.

It's hard to respect beliefs that require intolerance and this sort of vitriol towards people. And honestly, it's hard to respect people who cling to this sort of reasoning and fail to see the emotional impact of it on the objects of such vitriol. It's worse still to know that they actually view such hateful speech as "a form of discipline" that will hopefully "bring us to our senses". So it's not just tacit approval by one's family--it's participation in it on their part.

But I'm glad this video is out there. Just hearing part of the talk gave me the phobias all over again, like I was sitting there in the midst of it. I can usually stomach reading the literature but not so much the talks.

Anyway, glad you're fighting the good fight. Thank you!

--sd-7

134

Gerrit Loesch was at our DC today!

by goatshapeddemon in

so, unexpectedly, the final talk was announced today and to my surprise and evil glee, they announced gerrit loesch as the speaker!

first off, at the beginning of his talk, he interrupted himself in the middle of his sentence to scold the microphone brother to lower my mike it's right in my face.. anyway, it was the talk on inspired truth, vs. inspired falsehoods.

he went through 6 expressions inspired by the demons.

sd-7

What you have is potentially very explosive!

First of all, that's what she said.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way (but apparently not out of my system yet), seriously? He just said education is a demon-inspired expression in front of probably thousands of people. It's obviously no more controversial than it's ever been. You can put it on YouTube, send it to the press, but in the end, nobody will care except us and people already starting to have doubts. I may be wrong.

Certainly the conventions were the primary means of stating overtly extremist things like this--I noticed that even when I still believed it all. Common sense overrode them, in the form of the following facts:

(1) I have a fierce need to eat.

(2) The Watchtower has yet to be released in a Nutritional Edition, so I cannot eat it.

(3) In light of (1) and (2), I have to find a way to eat.

(4) Food is available in abundance to people who have money to pay for it.

(5) Money is paid to people who have jobs. (Except in the case of travelling overseers and the like. But I'd have to stop the self-lovin' to even make ministerial servant, so that's not working out so well...)

(6) More money is paid to people who have greater skills.

(7) Holy spirit does not provide vocational training or job placement.

(8) Education provides skills. Some schools even provide job placement.

(9) Skills provide money.

(10) Money provides food.

(11) I need an education.

(12) The guy who says otherwise ain't payin' my way, I'm payin' his.

(13) Ignore that guy with a slight frown and sideways glance to see if anyone else is not in zombie mode and actually heard him instructing us to shoot ourselves in the foot, but make sure he's well-fed by our 'voluntary donations'.

So...by urging us to forgive people who are apparently unregistered, unknown sex offenders in our midst, he's giving the finger to victims and telling us that siding with victims who want justice done is siding with Satan. Evil? These guys are functional supervillains.

--sd-7

41

Here's what I learned at our DC.....

by sir82 in

jw
friends

when people say "armageddon may come, but not in my lifetime", that is a "satanic inspired error".. how do you overcome it?.

why, looking a it that way, adam's rebellion was less than a week ago!

jesus was here on earth just the day before yesterday!

sd-7

In the last talk, the speaker was attempting to use his "we really care about" tone of voice. He was addressing his remarks directly to the "young ones" in the audience. "Just give the truth a chance!" he implored.

Ah, memories. Who doesn't remember that tone of voice in the final talk? After we've finished stripping you down to the bone, here we are to reassure you.

Everyone under the age of 21 I saw looked bored out of their minds. If I listened carefully I could hear the eye-rolls. "Come on, this is the last talk, just finish already, I've only got one more chance to get Sister Hottie's phone number......" they were thinking.

Yeah, by that time, most of them are out cold or seriously fighting sleep. Also, Sister Hottie is probably not worth it. She's a lot meaner than she looks at meetings. You have no f---ing idea...

--sd-7

41

Here's what I learned at our DC.....

by sir82 in

jw
friends

when people say "armageddon may come, but not in my lifetime", that is a "satanic inspired error".. how do you overcome it?.

why, looking a it that way, adam's rebellion was less than a week ago!

jesus was here on earth just the day before yesterday!

sd-7

So you are full of pride if you don't listen to someone who refers to themself as a glorious ones. I think the "glorious ones" might have a little problem with pride.

It must be very confusing sometimes. Are they a 'composite slave', or 'glorious ones', or what? The guys who frequently remind you that they are the future rulers of the earth are accusing you of having a pride problem...

--sd-7

9

From Slate.com: Blood transfusions

by pixel in

just to share.

how i treat patients who refuse blood transfusions.

sd-7

They are "old school dubs" though

I couldn't help being reminded of a store that sells car stuff in my area. It's called "House of Dubs". I always get a smile out of that, figuring that if the GB ever embraced 'thug life', they'd change the name of the Kingdom Hall to 'House of Dubs'...

But I digress. So true--you want to save their lives, and they see it as an insult, or an attempt to get you to 'compromise your integrity'. All because that's how the WT sets it up in their thinking. There's no way to look at it objectively--any opposing viewpoint is somehow 'soft-pedaling Bible standards' like the JW curse-word known as 'Christendom' does...

--sd-7

26

Do JW's even read the Watchtower?

by zound in

jw
friends

i know i rarely if ever read the magazines that i used to promote and place with householders (besides the watchtower study).

hypocritical no?.

sd-7

A surprising number of JWs don't read the Watchtower. To me this is baffling, because if you have the truth, how can you not bother to read it? If this is so life-saving and vital to share with others, why aren't you reading it yourself?

It shows, at least for me, when I was on my way out of the JWs and brought up things that were repeatedly mentioned in literature. Like in the Revelation book, the anointed being referred to as "the John class". My mom, who was an adult at the time we first studied this and was presumably in attendance for the other times the book was studied, seemed to have no idea what I was talking about. You know how many times the term "John class" was used in that book?? You would have to have not read it at all to miss it.

Even in my own experience, personally, after we studied it at the meeting, it was pretty much erased from memory. For the most part, I usually didn't want to go back and reread those articles after we studied them (though I did save a handful of them that were 'encouraging' in my fight against my sexual desires. I still lost, though...).

It makes you wonder how much they really know about this religion at all, from its teachings to its history to its leadership. If you're not reading the literature, it would have to be a very basic knowledge at best, unless you're just mostly reading the Bible by itself (tsk! tsk! sss! You're not going native on us, are you? Independent Bible reading? We better watch you. Your talk just got reassigned until we're sure your doubts are gone...).

--sd-7

9

From Slate.com: Blood transfusions

by pixel in

just to share.

how i treat patients who refuse blood transfusions.

sd-7

I posted a comment on there. Interesting article.

--sd-7

39

Anyone who's seen 'Man of Steel', can we talk about SPOILER-related stuff?

by sd-7 in

if the title of the thread wasn't enough, spoiler alert.. spoiler alert.. .

okay...so...that said, i haven't seen the movie, which would be a paradox except that i read the novelization.

so...how'd you feel about the way it ended?

sd-7

Of course, the more I think about Superman killing Zod, the more I accept it as part of doing what needed to be done. I'm hopeful that maybe even in this series (and I assume there'll be sequels) that Superman will be haunted by that decision. I mean, really, Zod had it coming by that point. Obviously even this iteration of Superman doesn't kill indiscriminately. If he did, he would've led with that and arguably saved a lot more people... My understanding is that Superman usually pulls his punches, otherwise...

Wow, sounds like I've got some graphic novels to catch up on. I read mostly Batman stuff, so I'd like to read some classic Superman stories sometime, too. If I ever have money for it, that is...

But even with my significant disagreements with certain plot points, at least from the novel, I felt a sense of a really satisfying story that comes at you from interesting angles. Of course, reading the novel is different--usually movies suffer from 'the novel effect' as I like to call it, when I read the novelization before I see the movie. I always expect the cast to deliver lines a certain way, and they rarely ever do. Or the dialogue is different in a way that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I mean, I don't really want to give up 'S'--I mean 'hope'. I'll give it a chance. I think the second film should be much better. Hopefully.

Also, I'm pleased to see this thread still going. Thanks for your thoughts!

--sd-7

39

Anyone who's seen 'Man of Steel', can we talk about SPOILER-related stuff?

by sd-7 in

if the title of the thread wasn't enough, spoiler alert.. spoiler alert.. .

okay...so...that said, i haven't seen the movie, which would be a paradox except that i read the novelization.

so...how'd you feel about the way it ended?

sd-7

"Superman and Batman" Public Enemies

Now THAT is one of my favorite comic series ever. That was back when I was reading comics regularly. I like the animated movie they did, but the comics had so many more characters in it. I always dreamed they'd make that into a movie one day, but not a 75-minute movie like what it actually turned out to be...

I did watch the 'Superman Unbound' movie recently. I wasn't all that thrilled with it, but it was okay. I'll have to watch it again, I suppose. I think my favorite of the animated movies they're doing these days (as far as Superman goes, at least) is definitely 'Superman Vs. the Elite'. Although...'Superman Doomsday', and...'Superman/Batman Apocalypse' were pretty good movies, too. (I had to go back and reread the 'Superman/Batman Apocalypse' issues after that movie--man did they make Wonder Woman and Supergirl look hot!)

Ah...now this is a fun topic. I'm glad I started it.

--sd-7