Posts by sd-7

  • Separation of Powers
    6

    WW I, the Gentile Times, and the Last days...the not so exact science of chronology

    by Separation of Powers in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    essentially, the jw position regarding the end of the gentile times and the significance of 1914 revolve around a principal element, namely, that the "great war" (ww1) was an indication of the anger of the dragon, i.e satan, after being cast out of heaven per revelation 12:7-9 and the start of the sign of the last days.

    this has always been a sticky point for the organization....why?.

    because, based on their chronology, the gentile times ended in october 3/4 of 1914 with the last days commencing from that point on.

    1. wantingtruth
    2. Crazyguy
    3. Bangalore
  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Some folks say it was all a distraction so the world wouldn't "discern" Jesus' invisible presence. Because obviously, had there been no war, people would've paid rapt attention to Watchtower predictions, right? --sd-7

  • Simon
    39

    Universal sovereignty, The Tower of Babel and witness tampering

    by Simon in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    the main premise of the bible is that satan challenged jehovahs authority and humans fell for the lie so god then gave man / satan a chance to rule to "prove" that they needed him and couldn't do it themselves.

    this was for the benefit of the angels watching who are presumably easily swayed too.. not really believable and some stunning gaps of logic but let's go with it for now.. what happened next in the bible?

    well, man was doing pretty good.

    1. sinis
    2. Jeffro
    3. hamsterbait
  • sd-7
    sd-7
    basically plays age of empires for 4000 years

    Yes! LOL! I can totally see YHWH with a headset on trading barbs with Satan over Divine FIOS.

    YHWH: "Your Babylonians are done, Satan!"

    Satan: "No! My moat!"

    But clearly this demolishes the idea of sovereignty being the main theme of the Bible. If God did all this stuff, it says that he literally does not want man to progress as a race, and what kind of God is that? He gave man the ability to think and then punishes him everytime he decides to think or combine his thoughts with the thoughts of his fellowman? It would be kind of a sick thing to do...

    --sd-7

  • Wasanelder Once
    19

    Did you ridicule apostates for attacking the Org. and not Bible doctrine?.

    by Wasanelder Once in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    when i was a busy little pie-in-ear we had a local apostate who would come and pretend to be interested.

    he always attacked russell and rutherford and the early organization.

    (this was in the late 80's early 90's) after he left, the young brother with me said, "these apostates always attack the imperfect organization but never can show anything from the bible.

    1. Vanderhoven7
    2. Watchtower-Free
    3. stillin
  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Well, my approach to this has evolved over time. I don't much see a point in attacking, say, Russell and Rutherford themselves as men. I think understanding the Biblical issues, for me, was a vital part of this. I came to see that many verses that made up JW doctrine were taken out of context, and that reading the full context really sheds a lot of new meaning on things. This was a somewhat comforting thing to learn, that it wasn't necessarily the Bible itself, but the JWs' abuse of the Bible that was the problem.

    Of course, in time I began to question the validity of the Bible itself as an absolute guide for morals and as an absolute guide to understanding the concept of 'God'. But I generally don't see a purpose in attacking the Bible itself, certainly not if I were speaking to a JW. The walls will go up even faster that way.

    It's mainly the corrupt attitudes--as reflected in Watchtower literature--that I think are at the heart of the problem, in my mind. There's this sense of one's absolute rightness and everyone on the outside being absolutely wrong even if we agree with them in some ways. The idea that even if the GB royally f---s up, we're still supposed to just trust that they've got it all figured out.

    The only time I can really recall even discussing apostates myself was in a talk I gave, in which I struggled to find any sort of meaningful discussion of what apostates actually said to people. Beyond that, it wasn't a topic I was particularly into talking about, since there were so many other things I considered more worthwhile to discuss (ie. the example of Jesus).

    But you know, it came to a point for me where I just felt something was wrong, didn't know what for sure, so I started looking, and that was it.

    --sd-7

  • under_believer
    10

    Emotionally manipulative claptrap

    by under_believer in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    just watched the first drama of the convention.

    man what a load of simplistic, lurid, manipulative garbage.

    off to barf now.

    1. abbasgreta
    2. losingit
    3. fresh prince of ohio
  • sd-7
    sd-7

    That's one of the best thread subject lines I've seen in awhile. Made me laugh...I shall feel your pain in a couple o' weeks. I'll be sure to find this thread and post my thoughts then...

    --sd-7