so giving your fertilized egg to a surrogate is pornia.
I actually did a thread on this subject sometime ago. Apparently it must've been too boring to get your attention:
I'd been wondering after I'd read it, if anyone really had been expelled over this issue. This is like, some newsworthy kind of stuff here.
--sd-7
so giving your fertilized egg to a surrogate is pornia.
Yeah, I was floored when I read that article. This is the most spectacular mindf*** in history:
You can be punished for fornication without ever having had sex.
Look, if I'm goin' down for that, then I might as well get some action on the side, just so I can at least get the pleasure that goes with the charge. I mean, oh, Lawd have merceh...
--sd-7
been hearing about this 'grey's anatomy' episode, and while i didn't see it, it brought up a question i wanted to throw out there, albeit a long-winded one, as is my usual nature.. the fact that people would rather die than take blood, as if...if they take it, they're doomed for sure to not make the new system--it doesn't make sense to me.
people both in the organization and the bible stories are forgiven for heinous crimes, murder, adultery, child sacrifice, everything up to and including denying jesus altogether.
(let's not forget child molestation and rape, apparently...) so why does it seem like this one act is presented to jws as one that's never to be forgiven?.
Thanks, TD. Good supporting verses, there. Acts 21:20-28 in particular highlight the mood of the Jews regarding Christianity.
--sd-7
"gaining jehovah's friendship" song carries what deceptive message with a medocre melody:.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/songs/106-gaining-jehovahs-friendship/.
is the jehovah that exists in the minds of the governing body worthy of a childs friendship?
We yearn to be your friend.
Given that death is the alternative, that's kind of a given, isn't it?
Great song, there. I guess when I became a bit cynical of it all, I finally understood...that this is just one big ultimatum. Obey or die. That's generally not a good sign for the friendship in the long term, you know? The big question that lingers in a dynamic like this is...what happens when he finally gets everything he wants from you? Will there be anything left of who you were before? Or will he decide to change the rules again and then kill you for failing to adjust to Theological Twister? Ah...fun stuff.
--sd-7
"gaining jehovah's friendship" song carries what deceptive message with a medocre melody:.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/songs/106-gaining-jehovahs-friendship/.
is the jehovah that exists in the minds of the governing body worthy of a childs friendship?
Of course, like a deranged carjacker holding one hostage, you never knew what little thing might set him off.
Wow. Classic line. "Do we obey the Divine Carjacker today by regularly driving ourselves and our families to meetings, assemblies and all three days of our conventions? Doing so will ensure our survival until the time when the Divine Carjacker tells us to 'stop the car', and thus grants us life by running off into the woods."
All who embrace your Word
...as it is understood by the Governing Body. No matter how much you love the Bible, even the slightest disagreement with them, even thinking Jerusalem was destroyed half a year earlier than they teach, means you have rejected the Word and must be destroyed.
All who have faith in you
...and show it by obeying the Governing Body. To disobey them is to show lack of faith and thus to die...
All who are loyal
....to Jehovah's organization.
all who are just
...in accepting the elders' decisions despite having heard none of the evidence at all in a judicial matter.
Living the truth for you.
Field service, screw education, a decent job, or that movie you were planning to see.
--sd-7
can anyone out there in cyberland explain how a woman being raped by her dentist (becoming pregnant in the process), and then the "elders" of her congregation disefellowshipping her for (i would imagine fornication & lying about it), how this can be seen as refinement????.
if a person gets a disease (say cancer) whatever, and then they go through hell but they beat it...i can at least see how this could be seen as refining, because then the person may appreciate their family more, appreciate friends, everything in life that is good more, and then becomes a better person because of it.. but how the hell does a woman being put through the situation mentioned, how can that possibly be seen as refinement?
refinement for what?
It fits with--hmm, was it Billy the Ex-Bethelite, who quoted someone as saying 'half of JWs are here to test the other half'? So the idea is that half of them torture, abuse, and shun you, and you're supposed to endure it all as proof of your loyalty to God, which will surely be rewarded in some vague future way in some vague future time.
--sd-7
i apologize for not writing much of anything in several weeks.. did you miss me?
(don't answer that!).
i am doing pretty good now after going through the worst year of my 60 years of life... but in order to make some changes that will enable me to keep working, i really had to take time off to take care of medical issues (mostly my spine - destroyed after 30 years spending 10-12 hours a day on the computer).
Good to hear you're moving forward. I noticed someone commented on your link to the 'Franz Incident', I believe, and seemed to doubt what you'd said about the Bethel purge, if you will. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't observed how my family handled my awakening firsthand...they can be very vicious and very cold about it all.
Certainly if you read plenty of Watchtower articles from the '80s, you realize that probably the '80s articles have the most detailed discussions of 'apostates' probably of any decade the Watchtower has ever been written. I may be wrong there. But you can't have that output without some kind of related input; there's no reason to talk excessively about such a thing if it's not happening. Just the fact that the 'Aid' book was replaced by the 'Insight' book should be all the proof one would need. Especially if you owned both books and could do a comparison.
Heck, even my mom heard the rumors, though for her it amounted to "The 'Aid' book was written by an apostate." I finally learned what she was talking about back then, but quite obviously, that one sentence could hardly sum up something that by all logic should be a cause of concern to a sincere JW. You know, questions like, how did that happen? What did this person know? Why don't they ever talk in detail about what happened at Bethel? If you wanted to protect people, one would think you'd be specific and detailed about stuff like this so as to make people aware that you did everything the best and right way and were only trying to do God's will... Instead, we get a two-part series about why the sum total of overwhelming evidence against 607 B.C. being the year Jerusalem was destroyed is either in gross, 20-year-level error or else actually SUPPORTS the date!
Anyway, your site is definitely one of the best for Bethelite firsthand anecdotes. I often felt like I was there, blowing half my allowance on one beer. Must've been a great time to be alive...
--sd-7
been hearing about this 'grey's anatomy' episode, and while i didn't see it, it brought up a question i wanted to throw out there, albeit a long-winded one, as is my usual nature.. the fact that people would rather die than take blood, as if...if they take it, they're doomed for sure to not make the new system--it doesn't make sense to me.
people both in the organization and the bible stories are forgiven for heinous crimes, murder, adultery, child sacrifice, everything up to and including denying jesus altogether.
(let's not forget child molestation and rape, apparently...) so why does it seem like this one act is presented to jws as one that's never to be forgiven?.
I also meant to add to my original post--and I may be totally off-base here--that in Acts 15, the original reason the apostles and older men in Jerusalem had their meeting was to decide the issue of circumcision. Circumcision, and I suppose by extension, whether or not the Gentile Christians would be required to observe the Jewish Law requirements in general in order to become Christians. The fact that this eating of blood never comes up again in any of the rest of the Bible suggests that it probably wasn't a big deal/controversy/struggle. Circumcision, on the other hand, does come up again and again, since that was the big deal.
I was wondering if perhaps the assembly gathered in Acts 15 made their decision to 'abstain from blood', not so much because it was relevant to Christianity, but just to avoid offending the more conservative Jews that they wanted to preach to. Consider Paul's discussion of how he wouldn't eat meat at all if it was going to stumble his brother, though of course eating meat wasn't wrong at all, wherever it came from. Was that 1 Corinthians 8?
It's just a thought of mine. I may be wrong. Just wanted to get some thoughts on that.
--sd-7
so my wife is aware that i am totally disillusioned and i am having problems with lots of things.
one day she can see the crap(such as this past watchtower question from readers about ivf... what a pile of insanity.
if someone carries me and my wifes baby i have committed porneia rofl!!!
"By your powers combined, I am the Faithful Slave!"
"Gooo, Slave!"
Faithful slaave, he's our hero
Gonna teach the truth around the glooobe!
He's our powers, magnified
And he's fighting on Jehovah's side!
Faithful slaave, he's our hero
Gonna rule like a benevolent Nero!
He will surely bring asunder
The wicked who like to persecute us!
"The power is MINE!!"
--sd-7
im amazed how going witnessing sisters who knew me for decades would sit only in the back seat on the way to the hall...to avoid any sex at the traffic lights!!!
and chaperons 1840's style are needed because two witnesses alone for 10 minutes would go at it like animals even after all the training watchtower articles and talks being jahs clean org.
and all..
Maybe a future "Young People Ask" article ... "I was stuck in an elevator for over two hours with someone of the opposite sex, Did I commit Fornication?"
Rub a Dub
Rub a Dub, you just gave me the title of the next article.
"However, please keep in mind that any adjustments that need to be made to our fine instruction are to proceed from the top down, not from the bottom up; Jehovah's spirit will direct responsible brothers to provide 'food at the proper time', not to proceed from we ourselves, but from those Jehovah has appointed to take the lead.
With Warm Christian Love,
sd-7"
