I thought this conversation really illustrates the nature of power - because in reality, that is what has corrupted this body of men, power, and the thrill of concentrating and executing it. The real question is how responsible the rank-and-file JW's are for the predicaments they find themselves in......
Paulapollos
JoinedPosts by Paulapollos
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6
Conversation with a Co-Worker
by AK - Jeff injw's on this site could be disfellowshipped by certain hardline boe's for infractions that 'real' people would find unbelievable.. can you imagine this conversation?.
co-worker: did you say you had recently left your faith as a jehover?.
jw: well,,, not exactly.. co-worker: you didn't leave?
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6/15 WT- GB More Powerful than Worldwide Anointed- Don't Judge Partaking
by flipper inmore of the latest from the june 15th " witness only " watchtower.
under the article " the faithful steward and it's governing body " there were some very telling quotes which could indicate how the wt society is tightening the control of it's members - and trying to justify more partaking of the emblems at the memorial since the numbers partaking have gone up from about 8,000 to 10,000 since they no longer feel that the sealing of the anointed ended in 1935.. so first off, notice this quote indicating the importance of elevating the governing body over the rest of the anointed around the earth.
paragraph 16 it states , " are all these anointed ones throughout the earth part of a global network that is somehow involved in revealing new spiritual truths ?
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Paulapollos
Bohm -
Alas, I am not on the all-powerful GB, otherwise I too would wield influence and power far beyond what is merited by scripture! LOL
As for my closeness to the language - well, most of it is written by British people now, or at least heavily influenced by our British bretheren, so it can't be that hard for me!
As for the 12, I wouldn't be surprised, but I think they would wait until the teaching is more solid before they allow outright comparisions to be made between them and the apostles, although in this article, they already suggest that they are equal, and by inference, have the same authority.
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6/15 WT- GB More Powerful than Worldwide Anointed- Don't Judge Partaking
by flipper inmore of the latest from the june 15th " witness only " watchtower.
under the article " the faithful steward and it's governing body " there were some very telling quotes which could indicate how the wt society is tightening the control of it's members - and trying to justify more partaking of the emblems at the memorial since the numbers partaking have gone up from about 8,000 to 10,000 since they no longer feel that the sealing of the anointed ended in 1935.. so first off, notice this quote indicating the importance of elevating the governing body over the rest of the anointed around the earth.
paragraph 16 it states , " are all these anointed ones throughout the earth part of a global network that is somehow involved in revealing new spiritual truths ?
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Paulapollos
This smacks of the typical attitude of the GB and its "Nethinim" class. I believe it will not be long before the term "FDS" will be applied to the GB, and the "domestics" to the rest of the "annointed" and the "other sheep". It may well be that they will use the (specious) argument that the FDS in the 1st century was only the apostles, and they had to correct and adjust the other annointed thru letters, inspired writings, and visits. They will no doubt say that God has appointed them to the same role today - indeed, it will be a central plank in the theology. Later, I am sure they will add that the "appearance of the other sheep today, in accordance with God's will, means they too are part of the "Master's belongings", given the to the faithful slave to administer in our day. As such, since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ trust the faithful slave, should we all, whether of the annointed or earthly class? Indeed, the evidence shows that God views our obedience to the faithful slave, or Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, as central to our salvation."
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Help! Holy Spirit is Sucking me back in!
by BloominMarvellous inhi guys.
its been a long time since ive been on here!
just trying to get on with my life.
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Paulapollos
Hi
I can't say "I know how you feel", because all our experiences are different, but I can say that I really empathise. I suppose the thing is that when you are depressed, and you feel like you are searching for something, anything to give you that sense of well-being again, that sense of peace and happiness, you end up looking back at the organisation, and thinking that maybe the security and the routine is worth it.
If you have family there, and you think that that is the problem, then association with them might help you to cope better. But you have to ask yourself -
- If I don't believe it, could I sit at the meetings and pretend I do?
- Could I make all the sacrifices that they will ask me to? And could I mentally cope with the sacrifices?
- Would it make my depression worse?
You have probably thought all this actually, so apologies. Maybe you are searching for something, maybe you need to simply ask yourself whether there are other belief systems in God that you can look to. One thing I would say is this - biblically speaking, that organisation's policies and doctrines will not give you the "peace of God".
Much love
PA
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WT Jan 1,2010 p1315
by bobld inwhy did god wage war against the cannites?deut 20:17. the wt says "consider five common questions"i'll comment on question q1.
"why were the canaanites displaced?instead of displaced i would use exterminated.the wt "the canaanites were,in a sense,squatters in a land that did belong to them.".
at babel-here god "confused the language of all the earth"and in gen.11:7,8-jehovah scathered them from there over all the the earth" so where were the canaanites to go.god scathered them,years later he exterminates them nice.. bob.
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Paulapollos
Sisters are not used to write articles in the WT - often, they are used to "proof-read" or "check", but the Organisation's internal policy does not allow for sisters to write material that is considered to be theocratically instructive in any way. Sisters, as in the preaching work, are used internally to do the bulk of the work, such as researching and compiling, and certainly at the branches, there is an effort to ensure they are made to feel that their work is important.
As for the writing department, let us say that the attitude of that group is arrogant to say the least. I sadly had quite alot to do with them internally, working on thier material. When you are discussing how something should be translated into another language, you come across logic gaps and other things that show how weak the argument presented in the material is. This then has to be submitted to the writing department who need to oversee your amendments. their atitude, when you highlght erroneous interpretations of scripture, and credibility issues is something to see.
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Question for Bethelites and former Bethelites
by garyneal inaccording to paul blizzard, there were a lot of drunken parties and a lot of drinking at bethel back when he was a bethelite around the 1970's or 1980's (http://www.watchthetower.com/).
out of curiosity, does this stuff still go on today?
for any of the more recent bethelites, can you describe what your experience was like serving in bethel?.
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Paulapollos
When I was there, in the last couple of years, every young chap seems to get drunk as they can get away with - I think it was a reaction to the very strict regime
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199
Why don't you just take it like a man?
by AK - Jeff inin a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
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Paulapollos
Well, people can convince themselves of the moral imperatives of anything if the rewards are sufficient. The fact is that many come into JW for one reason - the Paradise. They want this magical utopia where God sits on a throne in Heaven, runs a government that is enviromentally friendly, makes sure that there is no war, crime, sickness, or death, and that everyone has big houses, and the latest yachts so that they can sail around the earth. Since they define "materialism" as reaching out for material things, there is no more materalistic people than JW's. They want the Paradise, and they'll do anything to reach it. After all, Juvenal was right - the plebs have no power in this "new system" they are populating. And so, his words are true - "with no vote to sell, their motto is "couldn't care less," Time was when their plebiscite elected generals, heads of state, commanders of legions: but now they've pulled in their horns, there's only two things than concern them: BREAD and CIRCUSES."
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Why don't you just take it like a man?
by AK - Jeff inin a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
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Paulapollos
Chris - no-one said they're not skilled!!! I think they may have spent some time reading 1984!!
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199
Why don't you just take it like a man?
by AK - Jeff inin a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
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Paulapollos
The other thing I wanted to say was on the matter of how effectual it might be to challenge the Society on the policy of disfellowshipping. Someone earler mentioned a legal challenge.
The Society is an organisation, and as such, has morphed and mutated until it has identified 2 primary aims: self-preservation and self-perpetuation. I can't help but see striking similarities between the Soviet system, and the organisation. The Politburo (GB) claims to represent the forces of progress, and the Party elite (the "annointed"), but in reality, sole decision-making power is concentrated in the Politburo (GB). It is only a matter of time before that "FDS" teaching is changed to apply to the GB solely. The Politburo maintains its control over it's subjects through the organs of state repression and terror (KGB, NKVD) - otherwise known as the "appointed men." As for it's official mouthpiece, the WT very neatly has its parallel in Pravda.
My point is that disfellowshipping is a vital plank in the self-perpetuation of this structure. The Society is, as it ruefully informed readers in one "Question from Readers" (in reality, often submitted by responsible men within the organistaion with the sanction of the Writing Comittee, in order to solidify organisational doctrine), unable to kill those who are disfellowshipped (yes, that is what they said) due to legal restrictions imposed by modern nation-states.but it can ensure that JW's do not contact such individuals. The demonisation of these ones is a deliberate strategy followed by the organisation. The organisation must do this to protect itself from exposure.
Any legal challenge, even if it were, by some miraculous power, sucessful, would augur nothing. The organisation is skilled in the arts of mendacity and sophistry. It might change it's official policy, but the undeniable impression that would be conveyed by the organisations security apparatus would be that, while not legally allowed to "shun" former JW's, those who did associate with disfellowshipped ones were not "acting in harmony with the spirit of the inspired counsel found in God's Word, regading the need to closely watch association." I would expect such ones to be marked.
As one CO said last year, why do JW parents wait for their "wayward children to be disfellowshipped? If they are drifting and not coming to th Kingdom Hall, if they are not active JW's. if they are not living harmony with the Bible's counsel. then why must you wait till they are officially disfellowshipped to limit association?"
Most Witnesses would simply view any sucessful legal challenge as a temporary victory aloowed by Jehovah to "further refine his organisation" - and that would mean that He was weeding out those who were disobdient among them. As one "annointed" brother said recently, "if the GB told me to jump off a bridge, I would." Such blind obedience is truly a staggering achievement! I wonder if the governements of the respective world powers have ever thought about recruiting Witnesses into intelligence programs researching propganda and the control of mass populations? It would be a useful investment!
In reality, the stucture would simply ensure that outward compliance to the law was maintained, whilst inner practice and doctrine remained substantially unchanged. The Society are capable of it - and let no-one doubt that they would carry it out. This is a matter of self-preservation.
To be honest, while it hurts to be ignored by people you grew up with, and spent your whole life with, nothing really would be effectually achieved. The key is simply to move on - hard as it is, I know, since I am having to rebuild my life completely from scratch, having given most of my life in "full-time" service. But is the only way. Attempting to change the organisation through legal challenges only adds to their martyr complex, their exaggerated sense of self-importance, and the belief of rank-and-file JW's that Satan is attcking the people of God.
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Why don't you just take it like a man?
by AK - Jeff inin a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
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Paulapollos
Wow,
this has really touched a nerve with me! It's funny, the GB and the hierarchy that supports that institution relies on two things - the rank and file JW's being Bible-illiterate (reading the NWT everyday does not a person bible-literate make), and that these same JW's are either ignorant or misinformed about events that take place.
I was recently disfellowshipped from a branch facility for apostasy, (and according to the Branch Committee involved, "A secret plan to bring down the organisation in this country" - which was so secret that I managed to keep it from myself!) and I have personally experienced the second. Whether accomplished by allowing chinese whispers, or even by outright lies, the responsible hierarchy is reliant on the silence and willing obedience of JW's to remain in positions of power.
It seems a very thorny conundrum - silence or open proclamation? I struggled with that for a long time. But one thing I have learnt is that open proclamation needs to be done circumspectly - often, ex-JW's, even though having justified anger, allow that to make them behave in ways that confirm the behaviour that the Society has identified "apostates" with - in other words, anger, fury, condemnation, sarcasm, sometimes sweeping generalisations, and often such bitterness that those who might have listened a little are turned away, and all because the Society has rightly identified how to keep most JW's under control.
I don't offer this as critiscm, simply as an observation.