Why don't you just take it like a man?

by AK - Jeff 199 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AK - Jeff

  In a recent thread, I was basically called out in this manner.

  Here is part of the quote:

  mean no disrespect with the following but I have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen? Did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you? Dear, why be so angry when you made the choice to leave? And I assume it was an informed choice, no? You knew that DA’ing would bring about this reaction from people that you knew your whole life, you can’t blame them for sticking to what they feel is right. I’m not saying shunning is right, but I do understand where they are coming from. I think it’s time you man up and learn to deal with the fall out caused by your decision to leave.

  Is it just me - or is this total bullshit?

  I mean;

  • I joined the religion because I believed it to be 'truth' - it wasn't!
  • I joined without any knowledge of hateful shunning that would follow should I leave - in fact for a damned good portion of my time 'in' that doctrine was suspended and replaced with a milder, kinder [almost Christian version] of treatment of those who left.
  • I was lied to, cajoled into believing said lies.
  • INformation was withheld in massive amounts regarding the religions' involvement in 'false religion' [Jimmy Swaggart], politics [Mexico and UN], war technology [Rand et al], homosexual GB members, pedophiles being hidden. On and on.

  Now I find out all the lies, all the corruption, and when I leave I should just shut up, bend over and apply vaseline. My only other choice is to shut up and take it like a man, since it 'was my decision to leave'?

  Well it wasn't my decisions that lead to my leaving. I left because of the lies of others. And I fully intend to scream it from the rooftops until these bastards go down to Sheol, smoking and crying to their false Jehovah.

  Jeff
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I support what you say.

  Former believers have to get the WT mentality out of their head. "We were duped, tricked, conned, suckered."
  Regardless of what you believe is being "fully informed" we were not. If you want to say that's our own faults, then you are welcome to your opinion, but when they teach that you either join or be destroyed (any minute soon), it's kind of hard to keep delaying to make sure we have all the facts. When they hide the facts, it's kind of hard.

  I joined because "it's the truth" and when it isn't the truth, I don't deserve to be treated like the devil's spawn.
• 

  Scully

  AK - Jeff writes:

  when I leave I should just shut up, bend over and apply vaseline.

  Actually, you forgot to add coarse sand to the lube.

  Seriously, though, both your voice and your silence are your enemy's greatest weapons. With one, you prove that you are an Apostate™ if you say anything against the Organization™, and with the other it allows the Organization™ to say whatever it wants about you, including labelling you as an Apostate™, with impunity.

  I've learned, after 25 years of WT servitude that the only honourable way out of the JWs is death. There are no other options that won't have you labelled as some kind of deviant.
• 

  darth frosty

  This is my take on it.

  Remember the mission impossible series? When ethan got his assignment this criptic message always followed:

  If you or any member of your team is captured the secretary will disavow all knowledge of your actions.

  This is how I aways looked at the dubs even when I was die-hard. I realized the consequences of me leaving would be a loss of so-called 'friends'.

  Now of course this is wrong but it is the way they are conditioned. You on the outside knowing what you know now can say 'hey it doesn't have o be like this.' But the ones stuck in still influence by the conditioning progeram don't have that option.

  Look at it this way, as we know the society has seriously back tracked on there blood policy to the point where you cant take whole blood, but you can take any fraction of whole blod. Despite this change you still have the die hards who say: 'I'm not taking any blood period.' Same holds with the shunning measure, while they have presented articles some of us see as lessening the shunning ban, or we may not be actually DF'd or DA'd, there are still those who are conditioned to not say or do anything with anyone who dont go to the hall. Sad but it is what it is.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Wow...

  Whoever said that is full of crap Jeff. Lets take the oppositve view of this...

  Suppose a JW went to the door and started a study... The study asks "Has the WT ever got things wrong?"

  The JW would then say: "Absolutely! When Russell first started this, he gave dates from 1799, a stretch in the 1870's where every year was considered prophetic, 1914, 1925, then back to 1914. The difference between the two seperate times we claimed 1914 was the first time we were expecting a rapture. The 2nd time, we took advantage of WWI and claimed that Jesus came invisibly. We actually didn't start teaching that till 1929. In addition, for a decade, we built up 1975, which most JW's believed until 1.1.76"

  "At the time we claim that Jesus selected us as the one true religion, we were still celebrating holidays. Our 2nd President, a man named Rutheford, was a lawyer who took over after Russell died, and instituted his own laws. Most aren't aware that he was a foul mouthed womanizing alcoholic."

  "To this day, JW's teach that most prominent bible characters found in the OT were actually prophesies that directly predicted the existence of the WTBTS and the first 3 presidents of the WTBTS. For example, did you know that in 2 Kings 1 and 2, Elijah pictures Rutherford, and Elisha pictures a man named Knorr, who became the 3rd President of the WTBTS?"

  "If you were to join us, you should be made aware that you can be disfellowshipped and shunned for any offense that the elders deem a threat to our unity. You will not be allowed any whole blood medicine, as all blood is to be poured out onto the ground immedietly to please Jehovah. Of course, fractional medicine from blood is allowed. I don't even know the difference, but its there."

  "If you have kids, we want you to make sure that they don't get married young, just to have sex. I know thats a problem, as sex outside of marriage is prohibited. Kids in their late teens and early 20's aren't able to make those kinds of decisions. On the other hand, we do expect you to instill a love of Jehovah in their hearts, and to encouarge them to a lifelong JW committment of baptism as soon as they want to whether as a teen or even earlier. I don't know the difference either, but that is how it works..."

  "You aren't really supposed to have friends outside of JW's, even your own immediate family. You are expected to study for all meetings throroughly, and to basically read nothing but WT literature in your spare time. Depending on the conscience of your local elders, you may or may not be allowed to watch certain TV shows or movies."

  "You will not be allowed to participate in the weddings or funerals of non JW's. The GB says its a personal matter, but they strongly discourage it, and if you do, the congregation will look down upon you. We really don't care who in your family is getting married or died, the point is, its not being held in a Kingdom Hall."

  "Oh, and one last thing, you have to believe everything. If, one day, you find that you no longer believe and change your mind, don't tell a soul. If an elder asks you if you still believe that the GB and FD Slave are gods appointed channel, and you answer no, you will be disfellowshipped and shunned."

  "Now that we got that out of the way, lets talk about paradise! Would you like to sign up?"
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Seriously, though, both your voice and your silence are your enemy's greatest weapons.

  Sometimes, does something somebody said just club you over the head? This statement was it.
  Saying nothing, just taking it "like a man" is the silence they want. That's why they demonize us so.
• 

  leavingwt

  Steve Hassan says that people don't JOIN cults, they're recruited.

  As we've discussed many times, there is DECEPTION involved in the JW recruitment process.

  When you become a JW, you're sold a sorry bill of goods. You've been scammed.

  JWs in good standing would rather their child be an imprisoned, convicted felon, than be an ex-JW, with a new (or no) religion.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  OTWO, Scully, DF, ATJeff.

  Thanx for those comments. I too was struck by Scully's comment - there really is no honorable way out of this horrible cult.

  Years ago I determined that on a personal level I would not shun people who left the organization or were disfellowshipped when I saw them outside the Kingdom Hall. [I suppose the mindset was that inside the KH they could make the rules, but outside I was free to act as I saw fit - though I honestly never thought it out that thoroughly.]

  I recall spending many hours with one guy that I had known since I was a kid, whom I respected greatly, though he had a drinking/women problem that didn't fit the JW lifestyle. I am so glad I did not shun him. He died pretty young, in his early 60's, still vowing to someday get reinstated. I recall spending time fishing with him, and even had a beer or two. I never mentioned it to anyone at the Hall - of course they didn't understand.

  But truly as stated - it is a two-edged sword. We can leave. But they seek to silence us for doing. If we are not silent - they paint us with an evil brush stroke - one word - Apostate - that strikes fear into the minds of those who are still trapped.

  But the point is this: Though they are steeped in a cult atmosphere - there can be room for humanity in there if they want to be human.

  This taking of humanity away from people - and then the mental inability of those who leave to understand that we are not any longer subject to those stupid rules they made up - is what we MUST FIGHT AGAINST. These bastards need to be called out - not those of us who have dared to leave the lies they propogate.

  Jeff
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  AK - Jeff

  Yes indeed, leavingwt, we were scammed.

  If everyone who was scammed in various frauds just shut-up and took the pill handed to them - well the scam artists would rule wouldn't they?

  Is it more responsible to just 'take it like a man'? I dare think not. The course of responsibility is to open this fraud up for all to see, expose it's putrified organs for all to see, and let the vultures eat to hearts content. Perhaps a few others will avoid what we have been served if we do so.

  Jeff
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  keyser soze

  And I assume it was an informed choice, no?

  An informed choice to leave, maybe. But it isn't usually an informed choice when someone gets baptized. What if you're a born-in who is manipulated at an early age to get baptized? What if you learn as you get older that it's all BS? Even if you know the consequences of DA'ing yourself, what is the alternative?