Props to you guys, Koolaid-man! Good to see JW being exposed in some way!
Butterflyleia85
JoinedPosts by Butterflyleia85
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Video and pictures just coming in from the world wide protest!
by koolaid-man init was thrilling to participate in the world wide protest, jan, 21-23 2011 exposing the watchtower organization for their policies on deliberately breaking up up families.
we thank all those involved this past weekend for their passion and commitment to help free those trapped in falsehood.
i am aware that many on this forum do not believe in protesting against the watchtower society,and i respect their position.
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Why do the JWs have such an aversion to philosophy?
by Darth Eowyn ini mean, they seem to avoid it like the plague.
i know people will say that they only need the bible to guide them in life...etc...but i contend that you cannot simply read the bible by yourself; at least without knowing where the philosophical principles contained within the bible come from.
is this aversion of confusing philosophy with faith way over the head of most jws?
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Butterflyleia85
Reasoning from Scriptures book p288-292 by JW say:
Definition: The word philosophy is derived from Greek roots that mean “love of wisdom.” As used here, philosophy is not built on acceptance of belief in God, but it tries to give people a unified view of the universe and endeavors to make them critical thinkers. It employs chiefly speculative means rather than observation in a search for truth.
What is the origin of human philosophies?
They come from people who have limitations: The Bible informs us: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jer. 10:23) History testifies that trying to ignore that limitation has not produced good results. On one occasion, “Jehovah proceeded to answer Job out of the windstorm and say: ‘Who is this that is obscuring counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up your loins, please, like an able-bodied man, and let me question you, and you inform me. Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you do know understanding.’” (Job 38:1-4) (Humans by nature have limitations. Additionally, their experience in life is relatively brief and is usually confined to one culture or one environment. The knowledge they possess is thus restricted, and everything is interconnected to such an extent that they constantly find aspects that they had not adequately considered. Any philosophy that they originate will reflect these limitations.)
They are developed by humans who are imperfect: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Rom. 3:23) “There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.” (Prov. 14:12) (Because of such imperfection, human philosophies often reflect a basic selfishness that leads perhaps to momentary pleasure but also to frustration and much unhappiness.)
They are influenced by demonic spirits: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) “The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Rev. 12:9) “You at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience.” (Eph. 2:2) (Philosophies that encourage people to disobey God’s wholesome and upright requirements reflect such an influence. No wonder that, as history testifies, human philosophies and schemes have often brought grief to large segments of humankind.)
Why is it an evidence of clear thinking to study the teachings of Jesus Christ instead of human philosophy?
Col. 1:15-17: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth . . . All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist.” (His intimate relationship with God enables him to help us to learn the truth about God. Furthermore, as the one through whom all other things were made, Jesus has a full knowledge of the entire created universe. No human philosopher can offer any of this.)
Col. 1:19, 20: “God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him [Jesus Christ], and through him to reconcile again to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake.” (Thus Jesus Christ is the one through whom God has purposed to bring all creation back into harmony with himself. To Jesus, God has also entrusted rulership over all the earth, as shown at Daniel 7:13, 14. So our life prospects for the future depend on getting to know him and responding favorably to his instruction.)
Col. 2:8: “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.” (What a sad mistake it would be to choose such deceptive human philosophy in preference to acquiring true wisdom as a disciple of Jesus Christ, the second-greatest person in the universe, next to God himself!)
How does God view the “wisdom” offered by human philosophy?
1 Cor. 1:19-25: “It is written: ‘I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual men I will shove aside.’ Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness [as it appears to the world] of what is preached to save those believing. . . . Because a foolish thing of God [as the world views it] is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God [as the world may see it] is stronger than men.” (Such a viewpoint on God’s part is certainly not arbitrary or unreasonable. He has provided in the Bible, the most widely circulated book in the world, a clear statement of his purpose. He has sent his witnesses to discuss it with all who will listen. How foolish for any creature to think that he has wisdom greater than that of God!)
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my story, would like some advice
by deservingone26 inim looking for some advice.. so i grew up as a witness was baptized when i was seventeen, which by the way i was pushed into baptizm cuse my parents kept asking me when i was and threatned to not buy me a car if i didnt get baptized.
since it was never in my heart i was never very dedicated and was disfellowshipped by nineteen i started the process of coming back but after bout four months i moved out.
i started partying alot mainly with my other disfellowshipped friends and nonactive jw frien, we were drinking alot and smoking weed but soon i started feeling the need to go back so i started up at the meetings but i got bored and went back to my old ways, this has been what i have been doing for the last five years, partying getting drunk and drugs and then stopping and going back to the meetings for a couple months, the same process for last the last almost five years.
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Butterflyleia85
+Confidence
+Positive thinking
are very good key factors that's for sure... Hopefully something will bounce you back to being motivated again. I wish you the best! :)
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What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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Butterflyleia85
I still personally believe in this resurrection because this is the only thing I learned... It might not be quite right but it's a hope I still have.
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What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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Butterflyleia85
Aqwsed12345
I have this scripture 1 Tim. 2:5 “there is one God and one mediator between God and men, a man, Jesus” (he is the only one that was perfect and strong enough but humble and understanding enough to mediate between us and God) but
2 Maccabees 15:13–14 don’t have Maccabees… is this part of the Books in the bible, interesting.
1) the “cloud of witnesses” that Hebrews 12:1 describes
I was taught that these were the ancient faithful ones of God (like you said Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as Moses and Job, etc.) that lived before Jesus and had a special resurrection but not a heavenly one but one here on earth to guide us and share their experiences.
So put two and two together, I never heard of: The saints being able to be the mediator (more able to motivate God into action (meeker) then mere humans) in a sense... if that's what you are saying.
Just fyi these are things I want to know about:
Butterflyleia85 cited John 18:36 from the NWT as "My kingdom is no part of this world...". But this is just a mistranslation to justify their antipathy to the non-JW world. Jesus only said that here, that his kingdom is not of the world, so that is transcendent, and did not say anything about the JW-like "not part of the world". You can check the greek it only say: ek tou kosmou which means: of the world. The word "part" is not in the greek, that is only a Watctower insertion.
I know I been mislead in different ways and when someone corrects me it’s the only way I learn. Thanks.
Darth Eowyn says, “…understand if they believe that there is some "event" or grace from God (or whatever you want to refer to it as) which will compel and/or change mankind's nature into behaving for eternity on paradise Earth?”
Armageddon is something that is considered a “great event” or a “grace from God”… relieving the ones tortured but destroying those wicked. It will be a magical (in my terms) experience the heavens will open up and God will heal us like Jesus did when he was on earth, resurrect us like Jesus did for the little girl. Jesus will have his army of angels and everyone involved renewing the earth and heavens back to it’s perfect state. (The heavens already is in action, suppositively it all happened back in 1914 when Jesus became King)
The main purpose for the earth will be fulfilled in a peaceful state back the way it was when Adam and Eve lived on it. Genesis 1:25-28
…and basically just be grateful and enjoy it. (Ps. 104:24; Rev. 4:11; Acts 17:24-27)
And yes like stapler99 described we will be tested one last time while in the Millennium range (during paradise) described in Revelations (JW don’t describe this much because this is the deep things of God and there will be “other scrolls” describing more in detail when the time is fit for it, kinda like an addition to the bible for the paradise is how I pictured it).
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Butterflyleia85
what a cute poem!
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Butterflyleia85
**Hugs** to you... I have to wait til my hubby gets home to have a real hug though... Oh never mind ha I got my little doggie here and a few cats to hug. lol
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Is there any real difference...
by undercover in...between a group of people who wear sandwich board signs, hold up signs, hand out handbills or put up billboards with the messages of: .
"religion is a snare and a racket"; " millions now living will never die"; "live forever in paradise".
and people who hold up signs, hand out handbills or put up billboards that say: .
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Butterflyleia85
Agree Undercover you made the point well and as well as many comments on here.
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Have your Critical Thinking skills improve since you found this site.
by jam incritical thinking clarifies goals, examines assumptions, discern hidden.
values, evaluates evidence, accomplishes action, and assesses conclusions.. using strong critical thinking we might evaluate an argument, for example,.
as worthy of acceptence because it is valid and base on true premises.. fluid intelligence; directly correlates with critical thinking skills.
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Butterflyleia85
I like pirata commit...
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my story, would like some advice
by deservingone26 inim looking for some advice.. so i grew up as a witness was baptized when i was seventeen, which by the way i was pushed into baptizm cuse my parents kept asking me when i was and threatned to not buy me a car if i didnt get baptized.
since it was never in my heart i was never very dedicated and was disfellowshipped by nineteen i started the process of coming back but after bout four months i moved out.
i started partying alot mainly with my other disfellowshipped friends and nonactive jw frien, we were drinking alot and smoking weed but soon i started feeling the need to go back so i started up at the meetings but i got bored and went back to my old ways, this has been what i have been doing for the last five years, partying getting drunk and drugs and then stopping and going back to the meetings for a couple months, the same process for last the last almost five years.
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Butterflyleia85
Elders told me I needed professional help… I gotten to the point I drank every wknd to get drunk and get laid. But oddly never really wanted to get drunk or never really wanted to have sex… I wanted freedom. I wanted affection that I was missing from the lack of love I felt. It never was going to heal on it’s own. I needed help… I never really felt that professional help was the answer but it was something I would consider to find answers (and I did eventually go to counseling). I wasn’t really an addict myself just bored. I needed something more then just going to meetings, being good, and going out in service… but still feel worthy and dignified as a human! All human deserves that… to feel accepted, respected, and dignified. Trust me you won’t ever be truly happy not being yourself. You don’t have to be unhappy or committed to doom just because you never went back as a JW. There is more to life then drinking, partying as well,…
But how can you do this? Where do you look? And how do you start?
Well a lot on here gave good advice… It will take a bet of effort on your part but you seem like the go-getter type. J Find some good friends… just one good friend to hang out with, maybe someone you work with, maybe some nonJW relative (someone responsible and fun)… and don’t limit yourself, what do you have to loose (nothing) so just be the social bunny and say hey want to hang out and grab a beer. (btw you don’t have to overindulge to have a good time), go to a social gathering where you can have fun playing games, bowling, cards, comedy club… something. From there ask questions get involved?… eventually you will find yourself joining voluntary groups, social groups that include the basketball playing, baseball, musical groups, whatever… Not saying all this will answer all your problems but this will keep you busy and particle.
Self help and self recuperation will come from support groups like on here, joining one your community offers, counseling… eventually you will recover and you will be able to live a normal life. Never stop asking questions and reaching out!
We are here for you buddy! J