Posts by lepermessiah

67

W5 Investigation

by Christian Gutierrez in

jw
friends

hey guys!

i just want you guys to know that today is a really great day.

there are so many jehovah's witnesses that saw this documentary and were disgusted by watchtowers policy.

lepermessiah

What a powerful story and a very well done report.

After having so many friends and family affected by these horrible policies, all I can say is that I have so much admiration and respect for those who find the courage and strength to speak out. As a former elder, this stuff makes me sick, but i am so grateful to be out. It just makes me sad that the rank and file do not realize how vile things are behind the scenes. I've seen pure evil that will stop at nothing to protect the organization. There is nothing you can do from within - the only thing that will win is this type of "spiritual" warfare. Keep bringing the heat. What a disgrace - after watching this it makes me truly embarrassed for those who do not recognize what truly goes on in the "truth".

When the victims are disfellowshipped and the perpetrators are protected, you find that you are truly among the ultimate whitewashed graves.

27

Do You Think a Schism is in the Future?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this over the weekend.

just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to jehovah by giving us your money" watchtower.

i know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build kh in other countries, etc...... the media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the usa, where the majority of the people and money reside.

lepermessiah

So many good comments - I just think it's interesting how shaky the organization is right now.

Like Ray Franz taught so well, there is a reason they went to the GB structure.

As someone mentioned, Ray could have taken followers if he wanted, but he had too much integrity and I do not think he would have wanted to lead such a movement.

It is funny how much it has changed yet still stays the same. The interesting thing to me is the control by using the videos and the constant dumbing down of the meetings. Of course my views have changed significantly, but previously you would get some decent talks on Christian living, etc.....Now it's all total simplistic crap with no real meat on the bone. Every time I glance at the WT lesson for the week, i just cringe.

The WT reminds me of Sears Corporation here in the USA right now. The store is dying a slow death, and has struggled to keep up their business model in today's world. However, they have nice real estate holdings all over the country - many in prime areas. That is what has kept them afloat. WT just recently played their big trump card (pun intended?) .....now the KH consolidation/sell off is their next move. I am so curious how long before the war chest dries up.

27

Do You Think a Schism is in the Future?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this over the weekend.

just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to jehovah by giving us your money" watchtower.

i know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build kh in other countries, etc...... the media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the usa, where the majority of the people and money reside.

lepermessiah

I was thinking about this over the weekend.

Just this week, there was the "consolidation" talk (in my wife's congregation) , the article about shunning that went viral, and the annual "show your love and obedience to Jehovah by giving us your money" Watchtower. I know my wife said people are running scared about this consolidation even though it was sold as maximizing space to help other areas, build KH in other countries, etc.....

The media and government has hit them hard in many countries, but they have gotten off easy in the USA, where the majority of the people and money reside. I have a feeling the heat will get turned up one of these days. I am waiting for a major scandal to hit the USA like the film "Spotlight" - unfortunately the JW's are not nearly as big a target as the Catholic Church.

Now to my point - this religion is going to have to change to survive. I see no other way. My wife's hall is full of old-timers. So many people I know have just faded or left. I know several people like myself who were Elders just resigned and faded.

I think a lot of the consolidation in addition to the $$$$$$ - they cannot find enough "brothers" who want to sacrifice their life to have "privileges"

Even a lot of the kool aid drinkers I know will begrudgingly admit there are problems. Do you think there could ever be a major 1919-like schism in the organization again? I could see a scenario where you have a liberal/conservative separation. The interesting thing would be who would retain the power in the corporation. Like Rutherford, the one holding the $$$$ wins in the end......

17

Classic Talk Regarding KH Consolidation

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

last night i was listening in as my spouse was on the phone line.

there was a big "local needs" talk announced and it was speculated to be about the congregation reshuffling.. that ended up to be the case.

i thought i used to lay it on thick from the platform....... this was the ultimate spin job - worthy of political office or a spot on the governing body.. one thing that stood out "while the numbers may not necessarily indicate it, it is clear jehovah is speeding up the work".

lepermessiah

I totally agree - this consolidation is DOUBLEPLUSGOOD

Morpheus - I could not agree more. It is like Paul Grundy talking about the holy spirit appointing his acquaintance as an elder all while having an affair going on the side (I believe that was the situation) . When i saw that first hand, along with the simple emphasis on field service time and brown nosers - wow, that was a wake-up call for me.

Ultimately, the biggest driver for me was why would the holy spirit and Jesus our mighty head of the congregation leave a known pedophile in place for decades? This was a situation I dealt with locally when all of the stories came out.....I was in a meeting and someone said, "Well, Jehovah handled that in his due time" - I responded "Yeah, because the SOB DIED -AS AN ELDER!!!" Here's your sign....and my resignation.

8

Toronto CityNews - Online obit hijacked by religious propaganda: family

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

cristina howorun spoke to one woman who says her father’s online memorial was hijacked by posts trying to recruit new members to a faith her father had no connection to.. news video at this link:.

http://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2018/03/14/online-obit-hijacked-by-religious-propaganda-family/.

(you have to endure two ads to get to the broadcast).

lepermessiah

I love the spin job from the spokesman Matthieu Rozen:

"Our organization does not sponsor any proselytizing campaigns in funeral homes.If an individual is moved by love and faith to share their condolences and the Bible's comforting words with a person in grief, that is a personal choice."

Of course you do not encourage preaching in funeral homes - that would border on illegal and be highly inappropriate, even by JW standards.

However, you have encouraged people to contact grieving families in cemeteries and through reading obituaries - as noted above. We used to have an elder who would go to cemeteries all the time - I refused to participate nor would I ever recommend it. I thought it was highly inappropriate.

The lady in the video handled it very classy - she was direct and had a right to be angry. You can offer your condolences without any reference to the bible or JW.org if you care that much. The sad part is you know these people were doing this all in the effort to get service time. Probably some poor pioneer slogging away to get some hours. I am sure that is what Jesus and Paul were talking about in the scriptures.

17

Classic Talk Regarding KH Consolidation

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

last night i was listening in as my spouse was on the phone line.

there was a big "local needs" talk announced and it was speculated to be about the congregation reshuffling.. that ended up to be the case.

i thought i used to lay it on thick from the platform....... this was the ultimate spin job - worthy of political office or a spot on the governing body.. one thing that stood out "while the numbers may not necessarily indicate it, it is clear jehovah is speeding up the work".

lepermessiah

Last night I was listening in as my spouse was on the phone line.

There was a big "local needs" talk announced and it was speculated to be about the congregation reshuffling.

That ended up to be the case. I thought I used to lay it on thick from the platform......

This was the ultimate spin job - worthy of political office or a spot on the governing body.

One thing that stood out "While the numbers may not necessarily indicate it, it is clear Jehovah is speeding up the work".

LOL - the work is coming to a standstill. The only growth I have seen in the years since I left is through foreign language. I did that the last two years I was active and it was the only thing that kept me going - just because of the benefit of learning a new language. People are flocking to foreign language to escape the drudgery of service in their native tongue.

The last twenty minutes took ever bit of energy for me to listen to, but I was caught in the black hole. He went on about following instruction, following Jesus example, and of course, that this is direction coming from Jehovah. The holy spirit is busy directing the brothers to make prayerful decisions regarding your family - HAHA. When i was involved in a similar activity years ago, the "prayerful consideration" was arguments about people wanting their friends to go with them or to exile people no one liked to a congregation in Siberia.

Hopefully this reshuffling drives some people into inactivity. I just wish people realized this is all about decline revenue and declining attendance. The work is speeding up alright - just in the opposite direction. Hopefully another wheel falls off the chariot.

30

Update on Detroit-Area Murder Suicide - Front Page Article

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/19/keego-harbor-jehovahs-witness-mom-triple-murder-suicide/351559002/.

this was on the front page of freep.com this morning - sadly there are some factual errors in this article that people will jump on (not allowed to go to college was in original article for instance - hopefully the reporter will correct it).

interesting reading the comments below the article - all kinds of opinions.

lepermessiah

Lots of great comments as usual. I didn't even realize the YouTube video was out there of the friend crashing the Sunday meeting - WOW. That would have been very surreal.

Couple other points of reflection - rare to see a journalist jump on the shunning aspect so aggressively. In the comments section below the article she even made some interesting comments. (pasted below) A point about this journalist - she did a huge series on female mutilation in the area that also was highly controversial and direct toward certain religious/cultural groups in the vicinity.

The shunning is common and the emotional turmoil is terrible. However, a small percentage take their own life. I only know of a couple other murder/suicides in my area growing up and both people were thought to be schizophrenic. Most of the suicides I knew were still in the congregation in "good standing" - for many people I knew growing up the disfellowshipping was a relief because it gave them the freedom to leave and live their own life. I used to run into some old buddies all the time (of course I chatted with them as long as possible) and several said it was the best thing for them since it created the barrier they needed to escape.

If anything - it's a sad reflection on God's organization and the happiest people on earth! Pretty awful that most of the people that remain in it have emotional and mental health issues and the people that try to leave are often ill equipped to deal with the realities of life outside of the Borg because of said issues......

When I was an elder, it was shameful and pathetic how ill equipped elders were to deal with anyone who had emotional problems - it was either P.A.S.S. (prayer association study service) or don't let the door hit you on the way out mentality.....the vast majority of the congregation was on anti-depressants and tranquilizers. It was very tough to deal with when you saw the reality talking to people on shepherding visits. Most werent happy and most were burdened and overwhelmed with life.

Reporter Tresa Baldas (from the comments section):

I am not blaming a church. But many ex-Jehovah's Witnesses whom I interviewed -- folks whose kids have committed suicide and those who attempted suicide themselves due to shunning -- believe this woman was driven to do this due to isolation. This is not my view. this is the view of those who knew her, and who experienced this themselves. Stay tuned ... As the story points out, three other men have committed similar acts within this community. It is more common. Stay tuned.....

30

Update on Detroit-Area Murder Suicide - Front Page Article

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/19/keego-harbor-jehovahs-witness-mom-triple-murder-suicide/351559002/.

this was on the front page of freep.com this morning - sadly there are some factual errors in this article that people will jump on (not allowed to go to college was in original article for instance - hopefully the reporter will correct it).

interesting reading the comments below the article - all kinds of opinions.

lepermessiah

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/19/keego-harbor-jehovahs-witness-mom-triple-murder-suicide/351559002/

This was on the front page of freep.com this morning - sadly there are some factual errors in this article that people will jump on (not allowed to go to college was in original article for instance - hopefully the reporter will correct it).

Interesting reading the comments below the article - all kinds of opinions.

Just some thoughts - Terrible tragedy but I think shunning does lead many people to desperate actions. It is the ultimate in cruelty. Obviously killing the rest of the family indicates additional mental health issues, but I hope this incident leads to more people recognizing the cruelty of shunning and to investigate it for themselves. I think a large percentage of JW's disagree with the shunning policy but follow it out of fear and getting shunned themselves. The scriptural reasoning is so off base in my opinion and then the society has added so many Pharisaic rules on top of it that it clear to many that something is wrong. I do see a trend where more people are questioning the company line - I hope it continues.

Sadly, I know several people who took their lives before getting DF'ed - not sure on all the people I knew (ironically all males) but I strongly suspect several were homosexual and had acted on it (evidence was there based on personality and association - only reason I make that comment) or were ready to leave and just could not see a way out. It just makes me grateful when people get support from outlets like this. They can talk to people who exited, were successful, and found that life would indeed get better once they got through the trial and tribulation of leaving.

Unfortunately, many will just say "well, she was just crazy" and move about their business.

48

2018 Convention videos leaked by brave insiders

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

anopther coup for cedars: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/leaked-2018-convention-videos-celebrate-anti-lgbtq-bigotry-unquestioning-obedience-doomsday-fear-mongering

lepermessiah

Man, I haven't posted in a long time. Emotionally needed a break. I have been a lurker and still really enjoy everyone's posts. But with Lloyd and the others doing so much to embarrass and expose this evil organization, I had to post. Too much good stuff going on to miss out. Seen progress with my family and i think there is hope there. Slow and steady.

The changes in the BORG are such a joke. As a former elder, I have attended just a few meetings in the past several years. The videos are a laughingstock and a complete and total farce. How can you consider this spiritual food? I did watch a video of last years convention - what a disgrace. They are really doubling down on the "follow our direction at all costs despite a complete lack of common sense and basic human logic."

The point about the portrayal of women is spot on and very sad. The "women are a large army" as long as they shut up and follow the lead of the "brothers". Good luck sisters. Oops I said "luck". Bless you. You can tell the BORG is terrified (again) of the feminist movement and women empowering themselves.

I work in an area known for a large LGBT community. They are BY FAR the nicest clients I work with every day. Incredibly kind and friendly. They are not angry, confrontational, and do not need a lecture on the Bible and sexuality. Even when i was full-in I felt the same way. Morris and the other Pharisees do such a great job of showing basic Christlike kindness. Such disgusting hypocrites. I don't know how anyone watches those JW Broadcasting videos. I lasted about 2 minutes through one and had to shut it off. I literally cannot watch them speak.

All I could think of was the original ribbon rebel - Kramer. You must wear the ribbon! Aren't you against AIDS? Who? Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon? Stand strong brothers and sisters....(puke)

4

Office Space - My answer to all things JW

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

so..... i bumped into an old jw aquaintance who actually asked me if i enjoyed the assembly.. when i said i did not attend - they asked me why i missed it...... i said "well, i can't say i missed it, bob!

" (knowing he had seen the movie office space - when it was r rated!!).

he just looked at me dumbfounded and changed the subject......haha... i'm waiting for an old elder to come by and tell me that they miss me at the meeting........... i love their "fishing" approach!

lepermessiah

Thanks Lost,

I found this old gem:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/183169/1/Youve-been-missing-a-lot-of-meetings-brother-Fader

"I was told I could listen to Kingdom Melodies at a reasonable volume"