Posts by garyneal

126

This Made Me So Thankful I am No Longer A Christian

by cofty in

i was following some links researching something to do with my condition when i came across this article by the well known christian author john piper called "don't waste your cancer".. if i had still been a christian when i got my diagnosis i would have been subjected to these sort of pious platitudes.

here are a few gems, read the full article if you wish but not on a full stomach.. .

cancer is not wasted when it is healed by god.

garyneal

Wow, I just finished watching Lee Strobel's A Case For Faith and that was his whole argument for why there is suffering in the world.

Christianity teaches us to find what is good in even the bad things we experience. Good can come even when evil is visited upon us. Remember, the most important moment in Christian history was the execution of its first leader, Jesus. For Christians, this moment of evil and suffering visited upon an innocent man led to the triumph of good over evil.

It is moving to be sure and I can see how looking for something good in the face of something evil can really help people to cope with the bad things. However, I still think that the whole documentary needed something more to answer the two questions posed by Charles Templeton.

1) Why is Christianity considered the only way to God?

2) Why would a loving God permit so much suffering in the world?

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

Still, though, I am open to suggestions.

If you think it would be better if I said nothing, I can just give him back his 'research' and send him on his way.

Or perhaps I can target dishonesty in the org, I know when I was an IFB what made me break free from the thinking that only they had the 'correct doctrines' was the fact that people in the church would say one thing and do another. Well, that along with the pastor preaching urban legends as gospel truth.

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

punkofnice:

For this reason I'd just let them go.

Well, that was part of the reason why I discontinued the study by the turn of the year. Part of my New Year's resolution was to try to live my life and spend less time dealing with witness crap. I bumped into them yesterday during my lunch break and Mr Sidekick wanted his 'research' back and said he wanted to deliver more. *sigh* Oh well, if he likes his research, let him research 1919 for me, otherwise don't bother.

james woods: Yeah, those that get it really get that they have a very shaky foundation to base their belief in them being the one true religion.

diamonddiz: Yep, I got a heaping helping of 'Who else preaches like we do, door to door?' and 'Unlike other churches, we do not keep people who are doing wrong things coming in, we kick them out.' etc, etc, etc.. I understand that they are captives of the concept that the Watchtower is being used by God. I can even understand why a witness would feel that way as I can imagine that to an average dub, the Watchtower is almost larger than life. In the words of Raymond Franz, many dubs believe that the GB takes the Bible very seriously and in the words or my wife, they take their research very seriously too. If 607 was wrong, the GB would've fixed it long ago, according to my wife.

However, if any dub has any hope of dragging me into the cancer, then they have to confront this doctrine and defend it.

DOC:

Gary, see what I mean? You will have to teach them their own religion's doctrines before you can then prove to them that the doctrine is wrong. And then, that still won't make any difference because they will rationalize it all in some other way -- Where else would I go? Who else has the basic teachings of Truth? (such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, paradise earth, etc)

And yet they are so quick to point out how the average Christian is so ignorant of his or her own doctrines and beliefs and to tell you the truth, they are right. When I go to the church behind out apartment, I am amazed that practically all of them don't even bother to bring their Bible to church, let alone look up the passages quoted by the preacher. Most Christians just simply trust their pastor's interpretations like most witnesses trust the Watchtower.

But I see your point, my asking them to prove 1919 is most likely moot. Most likely, my F-I-L will write me off as the swine and maybe even advise my wife to not throw any pearls in front of me. Oh well. At least mankelli gave an attempt to prove the selection in 1919, albeit a dismal one.

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

Sorry, but all you're going to get is frustrated.

Maybe, perhaps, but the thing is if he cannot prove it, why should I join? The Independent Fundamental Baptists also claimed to have the only correct teachings of the Bible. How is the witnesses claim any different? If the selection can indeed be proven, we have our answer. Otherwise, they are simply another Christian sect with a different take on the Bible, what the Baptists do or do not do has no bearing on that fact.

14

Pondering A "What If" Ultimatum

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

okay, i will tailor this to my circumstances, but it's really a general "what if" question on how you think most jw's would react.. so, i am a fader.

100% inactive, but never been called to a jc.

so what if i bring home a huge lottery winning?

garyneal

If someone won the lottery and "confessed" to the elders then there is no way they can be anything but DFd if they take the money, is the way I see it.

What if I promise to give to the contribution box?

14

Pondering A "What If" Ultimatum

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

okay, i will tailor this to my circumstances, but it's really a general "what if" question on how you think most jw's would react.. so, i am a fader.

100% inactive, but never been called to a jc.

so what if i bring home a huge lottery winning?

garyneal

Yeah, right. I'm sure the elders would overlook that gambling offense if they knew that they would benefit in some way. Green handshakes for the CO, increased contributions in the box, "Brother OTWO, we find you repentant and since you were never disfellowshipped, consider this a private reproof."

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

Thanks for all the responses, everyone.

I am at my desk and the verse is Proverbs 8:30. Looking at this document, it is just a bunch of translations of that verse gleened from Bible Gateway. I don't know why he wants it back as it is nothing but a bunch of copy and paste, but he can have it back. I guess I should give him some credit for even producing something as many witnesses I encounter don't even bother.

If they cannot prove this to you, why should you even consider joining ??

Phizzy, I have always maintained this as my whole point. Brother Hero never did describe the whole blood doctrine clearly and concisely so that anyone with more than two brain cells could get it and see the logic to the whole madness. Yet, if I joined this religion, I would have to swallow that doctrine hook line and sinker. Prove the selection and it would not matter then, sure it makes no since but it came directly from God through His one Earthly channel. His ways are higher than ours, yada yada yada....

diamonddiz, I was considering the 607 thing but I would admit, I am not very good with the whole thing. Besides, it was not enough to sway my wife, the elder, or Brother Hero.

scary21, nice. I can imagine his response though. "Well, the church apostasize from the truth after the apostles died, yada yada yada."

Fernando, thanks for the suggestion.

jwfacts: I tried to let them go when I told them I was not interested in continuing the Bible study. Brother Hero was crushed, but oh well. Incidentally, my F-I-L was not aware of any selection in 1919 but said that he would look it up for me. I don't expect to hear anything more from him about it though.

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

I could also present some information from Wikipedia and have hime verify it.

"Hey Brother Sidekick, what do you think of what this Wikipedia article says about Russell measuring the pyramids?"

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

Well, I tried to get Brother Hero to read that book. I do not know if he actually did, though. I'm not sure if I should tell him anything.

Maybe something along the lines of, "I see you like your research. I was wondering, how did you ever know that the Jehovah's Witness religion is THE only TRUE religion? I mean thousands of sects of Christianity and many other religions out there, it's a wonder anyone knows. Even if we are to say that the Bible is the only source of truth concerning God, how can we know that the Jehovah's Witnesses have the correct interpretation of it as opposed to some other group?"

I'm sure they have a smattering of answers but the bottom line is by carefully plucking scripture (often out of context) here and there, it can be made to support whatever point of view you want it to. Therefore, how can any Jehovah's Witness be certain that his or her religion is the one true religion?

29

Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick, should I ask Brother Sidekick about the 1919 selection?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.

brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).

during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.

garyneal

I went to the nearby 7-Eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and I happened to bump into some people from my wife’s congregation including Brother Hero and Brother Sidekick. Brother Hero was the guy who conducted a ‘Bible study’ with me using the Bible Teach book (my God, I have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as I even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations). During our ‘study’ he began bringing over another ‘brother’ from the congregation who I began referring to as Brother Sidekick.

I found out from my wife that Brother Sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation. The elder is a nice fellow, somewhat educated, and quite intelligent. I questioned him on the 607 BCE thing and he even acknowledged that if 607 is wrong, the core foundation of the ‘truth’ goes with it. He later presents me with the Watchtower article that came out recently talking about the very subject. I never responded to him or the article as I find that much of my efforts are simply a waste of time and a distraction from me trying to live my life.

Well, back on topic, I bump into these people while I am at the 7-Eleven who evidently look like they are out in service as they are all dressed up in their suits and ties. Brother Sidekick asks me if I still had the documents that he gave me concerning a verse in the book of Proverbs that shows that Jesus was with His Father in Heaven at and before creation printed using several translations of the Bible (all from Bible Gateway). Apparently, he wanted them back unless I want to keep them he added. Now he never indicated that he wanted them back when he gave them to me and frankly I never bothered to read them. However, I told him that he could have them back if he wanted so he is planning to come by to get them sometime.

In addition to that he said that he had some other research that he thinks that I would appreciate that he wanted bring to me as well. I was thinking some time later about the conversation and I began to wonder, should I take an opportunity to ask him if he would be willing to research the selection in 1919? He seems eager to present ‘research’ to prove to me that the witnesses really take the whole truth about the bible and religion thing seriously. Brother Sidekick even gave me a copy of the Reasoning from the Scriptures book to show me how many translations of the Bible they used to develop their theology and we went over the part that talked about why John 1:1 should read “… and the Word was a god.”

Do you all think I should get him to research the selection in 1919? How would I go about getting him to look into it? Perhaps I should have him research something else instead? What do you all think?