Posts by garyneal

29

Are Western values compatible with Christian values?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i was going to say judaism, christianity, and islam but since i know little of judaism and islam so i decided to stick primarily with christianity.

i have found myself thinking that the values preached in the bible are not compatible with western (ie american) values.

however, it all seems to depend on who you really talk to and what he or she believes.. for example, the jehovah's witnesses preach a lot about how women are suppose to be submissive to men and yet at the same time preach how this does not mean that women are suppose to be seen as inferior to men.

garyneal

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Interesting responses all and kind of illustrates what I am referring to. There are indeed a lot of things in the Bible that no believer today would agree is humane or even allowable today. And yet, we're suppose to believe that it came from God. Of course, since no believer will ever adhere to things like killing your own children if he or she smites you or selling your daughter to her rapist, the question comes down to "does any Christian truly follow the Bible?"

Western views have obviously changed over the past 200 years. Americans no longer tolerate the ownership of slaves and say it is supported by the Bible but when the ownership of slaves were tolerated, proponents of slavery would also use the Bible to support it. Depending on a person's point of view, the Bible either says that women are to be in subjection to men or the Bible says that women and men are suppose to be treated equally. Interesting perspective, by the way, villagegirl.

But I guess if you take the Bible for what it literally says (not through the lens of someone's interpretation) it is hard to conclude that the Bible is in 100% harmony with Western values. Some parts yes, but not all. Those passages that refer to slaves remaining obedient to their masters, for example, have been reinterpreted by a church I use to attend to mean employees being good workers for their employers. While I really enjoy listening to preachers who can find practical applications of these scriptures that fit our modern way of life, I can't help but to wonder where they get their ideas from. Either God is still speaking, or these people are just (consiously or unconsiously) taking the text and making it fit into our modern values.

29

Are Western values compatible with Christian values?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i was going to say judaism, christianity, and islam but since i know little of judaism and islam so i decided to stick primarily with christianity.

i have found myself thinking that the values preached in the bible are not compatible with western (ie american) values.

however, it all seems to depend on who you really talk to and what he or she believes.. for example, the jehovah's witnesses preach a lot about how women are suppose to be submissive to men and yet at the same time preach how this does not mean that women are suppose to be seen as inferior to men.

garyneal

talesin,

Excellent, yes it does seem like Western values and Christian values (particularly those espoused by the Christian right) do go against what Christ taught. I find this quote from Ghandi suitable to your statements.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

29

Are Western values compatible with Christian values?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i was going to say judaism, christianity, and islam but since i know little of judaism and islam so i decided to stick primarily with christianity.

i have found myself thinking that the values preached in the bible are not compatible with western (ie american) values.

however, it all seems to depend on who you really talk to and what he or she believes.. for example, the jehovah's witnesses preach a lot about how women are suppose to be submissive to men and yet at the same time preach how this does not mean that women are suppose to be seen as inferior to men.

garyneal

I was going to say Judaism, Christianity, and Islam but since I know little of Judaism and Islam so I decided to stick primarily with Christianity. I have found myself thinking that the values preached in the Bible are not compatible with Western (ie American) values. However, it all seems to depend on who you really talk to and what he or she believes.

For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses preach a lot about how women are suppose to be submissive to men and yet at the same time preach how this does not mean that women are suppose to be seen as inferior to men. Churches do this too with many of the Bible teachings. They either gloss over the bad teachings or avoid them altogether. There's the God who will order the genocide and the killing of men, women, and children and the God who despises murder. Depending on what church you go to, you either protest gays and lesbians and tell them that God hates them or say that God loves everyone and everyone is imperfect.

Really, the Bible can pretty much say, anything you want it to say.

So what do you all think, are the values being taught by religion compatible with Western values? If so, please explain why and if not, please explain why.

216

My Final Goodbye

by Lady Lee in

i want to start by saying i will not participate in discussion here about my resignation as a moderator at jwn.. simon please consider this as my resignation from that position.. i have been posting on this board for almost 12 years.

i know some of you a lot, others a little and some not very well at all.

i have remained here for those of you who have needed support as you make the transition out of the wts, who needed someone to listen to your experiences of abuse at the hands of jehovah's witnesses, and to both laugh and cry with you as you progress out of the watchtower society.. we know that we have all experienced the cruelty of abuse of one kind or another.

garyneal

Sorry to see you go.

27

are the elders waking up too?

by nowwhat? in

we have an older very faithfull elder body and whenever they talk about armegeddon or the end of this system of thiings, they always use "very near, close, soon, etc".

well on the stage one elder when talking about the great tribuation this week , he said "possibly in our lifetime" !!!

that really caught my attention and even my wife's too!

garyneal

Had one speaker at the last assembly I attended say, "If you are a young one looking to study in college and plan your retirement, well, don't expect this old system to last that long." I immediately said OUT LOUD to where the people around us could here, "They said that back in 1969!"

37

Attention Born in Lurkers

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

do you feel that something has changed within god's organization?

have you noticed that in the past several years there has been a more authoritarian spirit displayed in the publications and from the platform?

i am in the beginning stages of a fade away and wanted to express my thoughts.

garyneal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki0QM8sHdC8

40

Do You Fully Support "Obamacare"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it everything you thought it would be?

.

are you happy that this law is being initiated?.

garyneal

I voted for Obama because I believed in his healthcare proposals. If the Republicans have something better, I am certainly willing to listen to what they have to offer. To date, they have not come up with anything of substance and they had 6 years (2000-2006) of power in the executive and legislative branches to do something. Nothing, unless you count that consumer driven health care stuff. It is not the worst plan in the world but it did little to fix the overall problems with healthcare.

I just don't think the market is the best place for healthcare. As long as the profit motive exists for the system, it will never get any better. I can understand why the insurance companies wanted the individual mandate in exchange for providing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. After all, how else are you going to spread the cost around? I just don't get why so many people are upset with Obama for the individual mandate when it was something the insurance companies wanted.

14

Ray "Banana man" Comfort really shows his ignorance

by cantleave in

jw
friends

.

garyneal

So did he answer the question concerning the contradiction?

15

If Jesus Could Be Ressurrected On Earth And He Went To Bethel What Would He Tell The Governing Body CEOs?

by frankiespeakin in

for starter stop judging and you will not be judged..

garyneal

Why don't we ask Larsinger. He claims to be the Christ after all.

66

The 144,000 and the Great Crowd of Revelation

by Leolaia in

8-11; ch.

as in ch.

like the "great crowd", they are "of every race, language, people, and nation (cf.

garyneal

This major doctrine, so idiosyncratic to the JWs, results from an eisegesis methodology which imposes a conceptual frame onto a text rather than discovering from the context what concepts are expressed therein. A little reflection can show how eisegesis is the usual approach taken by the WTS in interpreting Revelation.

Hmmm, sounds like an intellectual way of saying, "Rutherford made the sh#t up to account for the number of his flock exceeding 144,000 and imposed that on the text rather than reading the text in context."