Gary, we have Blondie, Marvin Shilmer, Ray Publisher and BillytheEx, no NASA Engineer is going to win a Bible based argument our super smart members!
Agreed.
garyneal
JoinedPosts by garyneal
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46
You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
So one must ask: Are they really being directed by JEHOVAH? This is where the congnitive dissonance kicks in. It's a question that cannot be answered, therefore in JWLand it's a question that CANNOT BE ASKED.
Indeed. I can imagine that there is a great deal of that going on in my wife's mind as I share my thoughts on this as well as other things that do not make sense. She has tried to dismiss it by attacking my character saying that I am one of those individuals who want to do what I want to do. I keep having to remind her that this is not the case. Never-the-less, mind closed. I cannot get but so upset with her as I too was at one point in time very deluded. It is amazing any of us wake up.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
As much as I did not like taking the red pill, I cannot go back nor do I want to.
If the average JW went to a YMCA to use the swimming pool, they would likely be disfellowshipped for apostasy. Yet the WTBTS was a card-carrying member of the UN for nearly a decade.
That is precisely my point. When my wife first joined the Y, I asked her if it was okay with her beliefs because I had heard that the WTS had disapproved of this activity in the past. She said it was okay but could be a stumbling block for others. Never-the-less, she takes full advantage of her membership which she got at a discount by not including my income for our household income. I don't know but it seems a little less than honest to me. Oh well.
I also asked her a similar question when she enrolled in Liberty University for her Master's Degree. I guess you can be less than religious if there is a personal gain. I can't judge as I did less than honest things myself when I was more religious. It was my attempt to be more honest with myself and others that woke me up.
My response to this would be: if WT realized it was wrong and corrected their ways, why did they immediately join the OSCE as an NGO? The OSCE is the European sister organization of the UN, and their goals are so similar to the UN's they are viewed as one and the same. The OSCE is a self-described "political-military organization".
Hmmm, I would have to look this up for myself. The hypocrisy continues.
Sometimes I do wonder if the people who run this show know that too...and what else are they secretly involved in? How deep does the rabbit hole go? Are they now more discreet in the information age using front organization? For instance, do they lobby lawmakers?
I never understood why the WTS discourages their members from voting but yet they are quick to go to court? Either way, you're participating in "Satan's system." Personally, I think it is because Da Judge was a trial lawyer and (I believe) a door to door salesman at one point in time. Certainly explains field serve-us.
ProfCNJ: Your illustrations are spot on.
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
When I was at the meeting during his mention of the UN, I wondered if I should've approached him and told him about the WTS being a UN NGO member? At the time, I did not know the full details of this but I would've at least asked him if he knew whether or not the WTS had been a member. I ultimately did not bother but I still wonder if this is something I should bring to his attention. I do not have his contact information but I could request it and tell them why if asked. Any reprecussions that you think might come out of this that I should be concerned about?
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
It's nice that you can openly share ttatt with your wife...is it helping?
Nope, those pat answers were her answers as well. Nevermind the fact that they KNOWINGLY went into their relationship with the UN knowing that they were the wild beast. Somehow, they went in thinking something was right and left when they discovered it was wrong. Unreachable...
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
Last week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wife’s congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week. From my perspective, the meetings are held on Tuesday and Thursday instead of the normal Wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service. Sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting. Normally, I do not bother attending meetings because I do not support their beliefs and practices. While I think they are sincere people who only try to worship God in the only way they know how their prohibitions on all holidays and birthdays and their murderous blood doctrine prevents me from ever considering joining this religion even if I could overlook all their other faults. In truth, it is their murderous blood doctrine alone that prevents me from considering joining this religion even if I were willing to give up the holidays and birthdays. I would never in good conscious allow a person to die due to a dietary restriction found in the Old Testament.
That said, since this was a ‘special occasion’ and since it was important to her that we all attend as a family I went with her to the meeting that day and did I get a gem from the CO. The circuit overseer gave a talk about the last days and what events in the world tie in with Bible prophecy. I thought, “Oh great, the usual apocalyptic clap trap that I used to hear at my old Independent Fundamental Baptist church.” One thing I notice about tying current events with Bible prophecy is that somehow the events that tie to specific prophetic claims in the Bible tend to change as time moves on and Jesus has not yet returned. In fact, I pointed out this to my wife when I told her later that while I am first to say ‘Jesus take the wheel’ in regards to His coming religions do a disservice by constantly instilling fear by always insisting that His coming in imminent. The signs of the end have been around for centuries going all the way back to Jesus’ time and Christians should take heed to Christ’s warnings regarding how it is not for us to know the date or the time of the end. I got enough of that crap from the IFBs and have since decided that I will just live my life as best as I can with as much honesty and integrity as I am able and if I am to be damned, let me be damned for who I really am.
But the gem I got from the circuit overseer that day came when he discussed the harlot and the wild beast found in the book of Revelations. The harlot was of course the churches of Christendom, “no surprise there,” I thought as it never fails that it would not be a JW meeting without at least one mention of those awful churches of Christendom. I was expecting that the wild beast would be either the world’s governments or the European Union as this is what I used to hear in my IFB churches. Close, it was the United Nations. The circuit overseer gave a brief history lesson of them and tied them into the wild beast. I wrote in my notepad and showed to my wife that, “The Watchtower Society used to be an NGO member of the United Nations.” I later confirmed this by doing a Google search and finding both a Wikipedia article on the subject and a page on jwfacts.com. Plus, the statement from the UN that I found on their website clenched it. From 1992 to 2001, the Watchtower Society was indeed an NGO member of the UN even though they had for years railed against them calling them the wild beast in Revelations. Learning what I learned about their association with the UN, I am surprised that the CO would make such a comment in his talk. Evidently, he never got the memo.
So are people like my wife hypocrites for adhering to a religion that preaches against the churches of Christendom saying not to associate with them while at the same time joining the YMCA and attending college at a Christian university? Would it be hypocritical for a witness to attend an office holiday or go with their spouse to a holiday function when they are told not to have any part of these events? How about the witness who attends a church wedding or funeral for their non-witness relative? Well, far be it for me to tell an individual to violate his or her own conscious but I find it very hypocritical on the part of the Watchtower to tell their witnesses these things when they themselves went against their conscious and signed on to become an NGO member of the wild beast for 9 years only to disassociate when they were caught doing so.
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E-Watchman? Thoughts?
by thedepressedsoul ini stumbled upon the website e-watchman today and while i didn't have time to read over everything i found this thoughts so far quite interesting.
recently when reading matthew i can't help but feel that jesus warnings about the pharisees also applied to the gb and elders.
actually everytime jesus brought them up i realized how similar they are.
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garyneal
I was never a JW but when I began questioning my faith and researching I came across his postings. At first, they seemed sincere but ultimately I found that he writes like the Watchtower. His postings here as 'You Know' damaged his credibility as did his YouTube debates with others like 21CrossCheck21 and Tim Kilgore (who posted here as Tuesday). For me, the coup de grace came when one of his podcasts was commented on by Brett Palmer on YouTube.
This one is my favorite:
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
I do not know his specialty but the he works at NASA Langley, by the Air Force base. Yeah, I often wonder myself how these JWs are able to hold to the view that education is harmful and yet have an education at the same time. Another elder at her congregation graduated in pharmaceutical studies. Of course he did this BEFORE he became a witness, how convenient. Even my wife is pursuing her Master's in Teaching from (of all places) Liberty University. The Christian school founded by Jerry Falwell. How do they do it?
Incidentally, this is an excellent seque to my next topic for this board.
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A brother at my wife's congregation wants to study the Bible Teach book...
by garyneal in... he apparently has wanted to do so for a while now.
i agreed to meet with him this tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. edt.
he asked me to pick the chapter where i wanted to start.. hmmmmm... where shall i start?
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garyneal
No next chapter with Hero. He cannot answer my question so he stopped coming by.
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46
You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
Does your wife remember than in the 1st century the apostles were not seen as great scholars or full of knowledge of the world. Unlettered and ordinary... Jesus talked to the common people but the religious leaders listened too but did not get the sense of it.
Yeah, it is funny how Brother Smart Engineer's intelligence is honored because he agrees with the WT but as for me, well I am one of those intellectuals with whom the word of God was hidden from.
Are you in the Houston area?
Nope, Hampton Roads.
In short, I think if you look deep enough into the engineer, you'll find that he had issues before joining the cult. He probably still does have these issues.
Yeah, either that or his whole social system is in it and he is afraid to look too deep into his beliefs. A lot of smart people are like that.
A discussion of actual JW history would be nice to read about. Does Brother Engineer know that the nu-light on the "Superior Authorities" was originally correct and then changed by Rutherfraud, but the changed back to the correct understanding?? Does Brother Engineer know that the WTBTS has NOT consistently taught 1914 as the beginning of last days??
HA HA, I doubt it but you never know. I just know that Brother Hero (a pioneer brother who failed to explain the blood doctrine contradictions) didn't.
Einstein was obviously brilliant in at least one way, but if he had become a JW, would he have automatically been more qualified than other men in his cong to teach the Bible and JW doctrine?
Albert Einstein — 'Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.'
I know a NASA jw dude too-- he was once a MS.Anyways, he quit that position, they're rich and travel everywhere, do everything, and get drunk with other jw friends. It's WHATEVER. He and his family are social jws. I'd rather make friends with genuine ppl.
This describes this dude too as far as I can tell. I don't know about his drinking but I know he is rich and travels. I guess someone like him would be my wife's wet dream.
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
Ask your wife if she believes talking to a Muslim engineer would convince you to convert to Islam. We find highly educated people in all religions, but sadly very few among JW...so few that they make a big deal when one comverts and supports their simplistic beliefs.
I thought of this myself. How many smart mormons are there? If one of them spoke with her, would she change her beliefs? No? Then...
Obviously professional training or a degree doesn't automatically infer that a person has knowledge in all areas.
When I was in the university, a philosophy professor (who also teaches religious studies) spoke about a man who appeared on the 700 club who said he knew the location of Heaven. This got him curious so he watched and as the individual tried to say that Heaven was behind the black holes in space. He gave no explanation regarding how he came to that conclusion except for some vague and vacuous statements that your typical believer makes and when it came out that he was an electrical engineer the professor turned it off saying, "What does an Electrical Engineer know about things like this?"
As an Electrical Engineer myself I was a bit offended by the professor's comments but I understand what he means now. Really, what do I know about the Bible and religion? VERY LITTLE and even less so at the time. The more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know far exceeds what I do know.
rjharris: Um, keep up the preaching work.