Posts by garyneal

3

I doubt this is a Jehovah´s witness in good standing ;-)

by InquiryMan in

just looked at this brief comment on a meeting in moscow:.

.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/10713.

garyneal

I would think that the majority of them are just assuming the titles (Baptist, Witness, etc) of the religions that they grew up in.

25

Do you belive in UFO's?

by highdose in

jw
friends

as jw's we were meant to say no, but as free thinking people, i wonder what your opionion is?.

garyneal

Well I am going to assume alien life forms. I'm a sci fi buff so I am really interested in this kind of stuff.

Yes, I certainly believe in the possibility of alien life but I know that we just don't know for certain. Unless you subscribe to the area 51 theory or the men in black theory then in that case, someone knows. Those $400 hammers had to finance something.

Here is an interesting scenario that I thought of if indeed we discover sentient life elsewhere and made contact.

Would racism expand to the include aliens? Given our history, most likely.

What about sexual relations with an extra-terrestial, could the concept of 'beastiality' include humans having sexual relations with extra-terrestials? Given the fact that this would be considered inter-species mating some diehard religious leaders would certainly argue this to be so.

How would this affect religious faith? Would the extra-terrestrials have a belief system similar to one of ours? If so, then would that strengthen the case for that belief system being the true one? Or would the extra-terrestrials be like us with many belief systems or would they have discarded supernatural faith as a whole?

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

Back when I was an undergrad in college, my philosophy professor flat out told the class that Adam and Eve were a myth. There were certainly shudders in the classroom but we at least knew that there was no way to actually prove it to be a fact (at least not empiracally) outside of the Bible. The irony here is that he also teaches a class on the old testament in a christian college. Sometime after I graduated from college, he wrote a letter to the editor concerning the appointment of a gay clergyman in the episcopalian church where he came out in support for him. This cause an uproar in the local christian community and resulted in the southern baptists withdrawing their funding from college. He still works at the college the last time I checked and they even came out in defense of his letter while not necessarily agreeing with his viewpoint.

The professor sent me a copy of his letter and if anyone here is interested in reading it, I will ask his permission and publish it here.

Shortly after taking that class, I began to wonder since we Christians are considered the body of Christ then perhaps Christ is alive simply because we believe. If everyone stops believing, Christ is no more. However, I know that this not only contradicts the Bible, but also puts Christ in a position of being man made and places Him too much into a humanistic perspective. I frankly don't like believing that simply because I feel that Christ is much greater than anything we can ever hope to maintain. This humbles us and makes us realize that none of us are better than anyone else in God's eyes and therefore should not think we are better than anyone else. This also puts the judgement of who's bad and who's good squarely where it belongs, in Christ Himself.

Whenever the WT tries to describe Jehovah and Jesus, they always seem to do it in humanistic and three-dimensional ways, boxing them in the humanistic plain of existence. I could never subscribe to that because I would hate to think that this 'plain of existence' is all there is. They may have paradise earth where they can pet lions and tigers all day but I would rather have the glorified body that Christ had that can move between Heaven and Earth like He does.

My old philisophy professor was quoted saying in the beginning of his old testament class, "If anyone loses faith because of what is being taught in this class, then you never had faith to start with."

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

But what about God and Jesus? I recall when I was going soul winning (an IFB version of field service) with my pastor, he told me that God can be proven simply by looking at nature and at man. At the time, I agreed because I was being a good obedient little Christian who is fairly new to the faith and frankly I was convinced that this was really true at the time. Plus, as an aside, he had a cute daughter who always played the piano but I never worked up the nerve to ask her out.

Today, however, I believe that man and nature at best prove the existence of a god. It takes faith to say that it is Jehovah / Yahweh and His Son Christ Jesus because they cannot be proven empiracally. The only account of them is in the Bible and proving their existence using the Bible invites question begging. I realized that for all I know, I could be following a myth and that if anything, the true religion the thuggie occult. Still though, I figured that if all of this (Christianity) is true (and I believe it is) then I am safe in following it and if it is false, then I lost nothing. Captive of a concept perhaps but in actuality being a Christian and believing in God does give me lots of comfort and to quote Ghandi, it "...satisfies my soul, fills my whole being...." Since Ghandi said this of hinduism, I can imagine a witness saying this of the WT religion as well. I know my wife frequently runs to their publications for comfort and I can see how happy she is when she is at the elder's house (I actually told her one time that it was her sanctuary).

As a Christian, I know I am commanded to tell others about Christ but I find myself bristling over the idea that I have to tell people that their belief system is wrong when they seem quite content in their faith. Never-the-less, since I have been under their (witnesses) brainwashing for the last five years and have been told on numerous occasions that the beliefs I held were wrong. So when I did my research on them, I felt an obligation to point out the errors I found in them. If anything to at least vindicate some of the beliefs I had but also to help them if they are unsure of some things too. I know my wife has frequently said that she would celebrate the holidays if she did not believe that God was going to destroy her for it.

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

Fast forward now to how I view religion before I met my witness wife and got involved in her religion.

My world view was much broader, I realized that I do not know everything, and therefore did not have all the answers. You have to remember that the IFB church believe, much like the WT, in the plain old black and white view of either it is of God or of Satan. I was beginning to break away from that world view. I still believed in God and believed that my salvation was eternally secure in Christ. Frankly, I felt like I had a better relationship with Him than I ever did before and frankly ever had since and prayed often. While not attending any church regularly, I enjoyed experiencing the different types of worship styles of the different churches that my old IFB church shunned. I began attending a Church of God that is known for its out of order tongue speaking and prophecying, in part, because my old pastor (who I use to refer to as 'Pastor Limbaugh' due to the similarities between him and Rush) actually pointed out that church and told me they practice false worship. In fact, to hear 'Preacher Rush' talk, all other churches are false except the good ole IFB (sound familiar?).

My view on religion and God is difficult to describe (I guess). I still have faith in Christ and believe in the Christian religion, but I realize that had I been born in another part of the world where another religion was dominant, I probably would be something else. I don't like legalistic religions and hence why I find it difficult to be a witness today (even before I knew about all of the errors it committed in its past). At best, I would be a 'maverick' witness who would challenge the authoritarian structure and probably would end up a disfellowshipped witness.

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

Okay, I am going to lay some deep crap on you all since the direction of this thread seems to be going in either direction (depending on who is doing the commenting).

I first got my 'indoctrination' of religion (well my true indoctrination) at an independent fundamental baptist church. I was brought into this church by my step-dad's brother at a time when I was truly looking to be around nice, moral people and at the same time looking for answers to my spiritual questions. Frankly, looking back and talking with my mother-in-law over the holiday weekend, I found how eerily similar my life was compared to my mother-in-law's in terms of how we became 'religious' if you will. Had my mom's cousins invited me to the local Kingdom Hall instead of my step-dad's brother inviting me to his church, there is a strong (very strong) possibility that I would've became a witness at the time.

I've pondered what my life would've been like had I become a witness. All I can say is that I would've probably been out eventually and very bitter if my experiences at the KH paralleled in any way my experiences at that old church. Since that path was never put before me, I never took it so I will never know. I do remember, though, someone (actually several people) of my old church telling me that JW is a false religion. The people at this church were ultra conservative, gun toting, republicans (at least that is how they appeared) who shunned all forms of life styles except the 'little house on the prairie' 19th century amish type of lifestyle. I also found them to be very hypocritical, shouting amen to the pastor while he delivered his sermons recommending that no one works on Sunday's and Wednesday nights only to get in the car and go to the grocery store immediately after church. My 'cognitive dissonance' if you will began.

11

WT - 10/15/09 -- Analysis of some choice statements

by sd-7 in

the october 15, 2009 watchtower has some interesting thoughts--some of which have already been discussed at length on the message boards.

i thought i might highlight my personal favorites for discussion.. page 4, paragraph 7:.

"it is necessary that we have self-respect and find joy and satisfaction in our kingdom service.

garyneal

"It is necessary that we have self-respect and find joy and satisfaction in our Kingdom service. However, being modest, or being aware of our limitations, will prevent us from becoming opinionated. Rather, we want to "think so as to have a sound mind." "

My wife, by her own admission, is VERY OPINIONATED. Makes me wonder how in the world is she every going to fare well at the Kingdom Hall. As much as she said that she wanted a JW man, she better be thankful that I am not for I cannot imagine a diehard JW putting up with an opinionated woman.

The 'other sheep' are not part of the composite body of Christ...the 'other sheep' are part of 'all things' placed by Jehovah under the headship of his Son.

I don't understand how anyone can look at something like this and not run for the exits. Just as Jesus is not the mediator for the 'other sheep.' When I first found out about that I could not help but to think that anyone who sees this and still wishes to be a witness must not truly understand the implications of this. Either that or that person believes differently and keeps that belief to himself or herself.

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

Yknot:

I did a quick Google search on Greg Stafford and I wasn't able to quickly find where he apostasized from the organization. Obviously, this would put him in the same camp as the e-watchman. Do you have a link to a source indicating that he is out. I ask this because I saw another thread on here with the topic of him returning to the organization.

I will do more searching when I have more time.

35

Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal in

on our trip back home from the thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect.

normally, i would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse matthew 11:25. this offended me to say the least.. she said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because i will always investigate it and make sure of it.

for example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said i would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.. i told her that this was absurd and that i see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when i can see with my own eyes what color it is.

garyneal

On our trip back home from the Thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect. Normally, I would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse Matthew 11:25. This offended me to say the least.

She said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because I will always investigate it and make sure of it. For example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said I would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.

I told her that this was absurd and that I see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when I can see with my own eyes what color it is. Sometimes a duck is simply a duck. AFLAC!!!! She stated that it was okay and to not be offended because she is "opinionated" and therefore if someone told her that the grass was green, then as soon as she saw some brown in it she would point it out.

We passed by a sign on the highway and I stated that the sign was green. Sure it has white letters and she interrupted and said, "A-HA!!!! See, it is impossible for you to have faith."

My response, "So you're saying that because I check things then it is impossible for me to have faith?"

Okay, I told her, I understand that there are things in the Bible that cannot be explained, but I believe anyway. If I find evidence that seems to counter my beliefs, I will adjust my thinking on some things but I still believe that Christ is the son of God. What does my being 'an intellect' have to do with that?

Apparently, all of my research on the teachings of the WTS has not found favor with her as she now describes me as knowing too much and therefore being 'unteachable.' I said, "Look, if someone tells me the grass is green and it has brown grass mixed in it, I would probably give it no nevermind. What does the fact that the grass not being totally green have to do with me and my everyday life? That's being a bit nit-picky."

"If, however, someone was telling me something that seems like a lie or is somehow trying to decieve me to my detriment, I would be wise to check all things. The Bible tells us to do this by the way (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

She then pulled the red herring fallacy by trying to switch the subject to blood by saying, "Well consider how you view the blood policy. You don't just accept it and have faith in God, you want to look into it with the intent of disproving it in some way." I said, "Well, you are obviously trying to change the subject but consider how the southern baptists would preach against dancing. Where in the Bible does it say this?" Even she did not know and does not agree with it. "So think about this, the southern baptists and the independent fundamental baptists would preach that 'thou shalt not dance' so they must have interpreted some scripture out of context to support it. Now consider the scripture concerning abstaining from blood and how it is applied to blood transfusions yet allows for blood fractions. Shouldn't we check that just as I did with the whole 'thou shalt not dance' teaching?"

Still trying to figure out how it is impossible for me to have faith.

Finally, I went on to say, "You're saying that it is impossible for me to have faith because I study the Bible and research religious teachings and discard what I see are contrary to what the Bible says. Could not the same thing be said of Charles Taze Russell? Why did he just not accept the teachings of his parents religion instead of studying the Bible for himself? Why did he not just remain a presbyterian instead of starting his own religion?"

5

Post Thanksgiving Dinner

by garyneal in

i go to my home town to visit my family for the holidays.

originally, i did not want to go and instead wanted to see my sister for thanksgiving.

my wife wanted to go home so we did.

garyneal

xerc: I wonder how many Jehovah's Witnesses know about this? This would certainly give them more ammo for their Reasoning book.