Intellects do not believe in God

by garyneal 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    On our trip back home from the Thanksgiving holiday spent at our home town my wife labeled me an intellect. Normally, I would've been flattered with the title but when she called me that she was referencing the bible verse Matthew 11:25. This offended me to say the least.

    She said that it was hard for people like me to have faith in something because I will always investigate it and make sure of it. For example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said I would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.

    I told her that this was absurd and that I see no reason to research whether or not the grass was green when I can see with my own eyes what color it is. Sometimes a duck is simply a duck. AFLAC!!!! She stated that it was okay and to not be offended because she is "opinionated" and therefore if someone told her that the grass was green, then as soon as she saw some brown in it she would point it out.

    We passed by a sign on the highway and I stated that the sign was green. Sure it has white letters and she interrupted and said, "A-HA!!!! See, it is impossible for you to have faith."

    My response, "So you're saying that because I check things then it is impossible for me to have faith?"

    Okay, I told her, I understand that there are things in the Bible that cannot be explained, but I believe anyway. If I find evidence that seems to counter my beliefs, I will adjust my thinking on some things but I still believe that Christ is the son of God. What does my being 'an intellect' have to do with that?

    Apparently, all of my research on the teachings of the WTS has not found favor with her as she now describes me as knowing too much and therefore being 'unteachable.' I said, "Look, if someone tells me the grass is green and it has brown grass mixed in it, I would probably give it no nevermind. What does the fact that the grass not being totally green have to do with me and my everyday life? That's being a bit nit-picky."

    "If, however, someone was telling me something that seems like a lie or is somehow trying to decieve me to my detriment, I would be wise to check all things. The Bible tells us to do this by the way (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

    She then pulled the red herring fallacy by trying to switch the subject to blood by saying, "Well consider how you view the blood policy. You don't just accept it and have faith in God, you want to look into it with the intent of disproving it in some way." I said, "Well, you are obviously trying to change the subject but consider how the southern baptists would preach against dancing. Where in the Bible does it say this?" Even she did not know and does not agree with it. "So think about this, the southern baptists and the independent fundamental baptists would preach that 'thou shalt not dance' so they must have interpreted some scripture out of context to support it. Now consider the scripture concerning abstaining from blood and how it is applied to blood transfusions yet allows for blood fractions. Shouldn't we check that just as I did with the whole 'thou shalt not dance' teaching?"

    Still trying to figure out how it is impossible for me to have faith.

    Finally, I went on to say, "You're saying that it is impossible for me to have faith because I study the Bible and research religious teachings and discard what I see are contrary to what the Bible says. Could not the same thing be said of Charles Taze Russell? Why did he just not accept the teachings of his parents religion instead of studying the Bible for himself? Why did he not just remain a presbyterian instead of starting his own religion?"

  • Lillith26
    Lillith26

    Finally, I went on to say, "You're saying that it is impossible for me to have faith because I study the Bible and research religious teachings and discard what I see are contrary to what the Bible says. Could not the same thing be said of Charles Taze Russell? Why did he just not accept the teachings of his parents religion instead of studying the Bible for himself? Why did he not just remain a presbyterian instead of starting his own religion?"

    Great point!

    But on a personal note, I am so sorry that this 'religion' is causing so much conflict in your family.

  • judge rutherFRAUD
    judge rutherFRAUD

    gary your doing good 1 thes 5;21 is the verse i use on jw's all the time . to make them prove that jesus choose the wts in 1914-1919 I alwayys bring up old teachings and use this verse and ask did jesus approve of this wacky teaching in 1918? have you as a jw read all thw wt books till 1918 to prove to your self that jesus was happy with what they were teaching? then I bring up a long list of false teaching from that time. and I can't seem to figure out why your going to book studies and eating with jw family. I would tell them to all drop dead. sounds like you give the elders to much respect and they will shit all over you. tell them to prove jesus choose the wts in 1918 from studing the "finished mystery " 1917 version with you till them they don't follow bible standards in 1 thes 5;21 it's simple as that. refuse to study anything else . you want to feel just as happy as jesus did from 1914-1918 ,only studying what the wts was teaching when jesus choose them. and Moshe gave you easy facts to expose them on blood I show jw's no quarter and I next to never lose an arguement with them . good luck

  • blondie
    blondie

    (Acts 17:10-11)Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be·roe´a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni´ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

    (Philippians 1 :8-11) 8 For God is my witness of how I am yearning for all of YOU in such tender affection as Christ Jesus has. 9 And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that YOU may make sure of the more important things, so that YOU may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ, 11 and may be filled with righteous fruit, which is through Jesus Christ, to God’s glory and praise.

    (1 John4:1)4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    (1Thessalonians5:21-22) . . .Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 22 Abstain from every form of wickedness.

  • yknot
    yknot

    ......egads.....

    Why not agree to go over the 'God's Love' or "My Follower' (start Mar 2010) with her in exchange for reviewing Hassan's book together.

    .....if she won't budge maybe ask her about Greg Stafford's "Defended"......then after she raves about how 'intellectual' he is.....show her his website where he has left the WTS and is starting his own following.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    You already know that her arguments don't hold water. But to add to your thoughts, JW's say that the grass is any color that the Watchtower says it is. Anything outside of the Watchtower should not be trusted. That's ridiculous. You don't accept things on BLIND IGNORANT faith and she does, but only if Watchtower says so. I would thank her for the compliment.

    For example, if someone told me that the grass was green, she said I would not believe them and research grass and the color green to ensure that it really was.

    But if someone told a JW that the grass was not the color that Watchtower says it is, the JW would assume they were sent by the devil and would not bother to research anything outside of what the Watchtower says.

  • HintOfLime
    HintOfLime

    It's not about faith. It's about entertainment. It's about being fooled. Sometimes the world is not as we want it. Some close their eyes to the facts and turn to faith. To ignore what is. What we as humans have done. What our responsibility is.

    Others want to do something about it. We want to do something to make the world a better place.

    Do not worry about what your wife said, she does not have the courage to see. She wants to be fooled. Worry about the real work that needs to be done. Sometimes the masses have to be entertained into the right state of mind. Consider how you can entertain and comfort your wife with what is being done about the troublesome things that face humanity.

    - Lime

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Yknot:

    I did a quick Google search on Greg Stafford and I wasn't able to quickly find where he apostasized from the organization. Obviously, this would put him in the same camp as the e-watchman. Do you have a link to a source indicating that he is out. I ask this because I saw another thread on here with the topic of him returning to the organization.

    I will do more searching when I have more time.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan
    You don't just accept it and have faith in God, you want to look into it with the intent of disproving it in some way."

    A facinating argument that is used all the time by JWs.

    A person who critically examines the blood policy is interested in determining if the arguments put forwad by the Watchtower Society are worth putting ones own life and the life of their family on the line. Where does this "intent of disproving" come from? Its nothing more than a lame attempt to discourage critical thinking, labeling it as something that only angry petty people do.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    I think faith as a concept is becoming outdated, since it seems faith was used by past cultures to "fill in the gaps" of their understanding about the world. The more we learn about the universe and ourselves, the less faith we need to fill in those gaps. There are gaps remaining, of course, but not such huge gaps that our lives would be incomplete without applying faith on a day to day basis.

    For example, there is never any need to have faith that grass is generally green, because grass is something we are so familiar with. God, on the other hand, is generally not some easily-definable concept, thus the need for faith when filling in that huge Gap.

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