When I was at the meeting during his mention of the UN, I wondered if I should've approached him and told him about the WTS being a UN NGO member? At the time, I did not know the full details of this but I would've at least asked him if he knew whether or not the WTS had been a member. I ultimately did not bother but I still wonder if this is something I should bring to his attention. I do not have his contact information but I could request it and tell them why if asked. Any reprecussions that you think might come out of this that I should be concerned about?
garyneal
JoinedPosts by garyneal
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23
The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
It's nice that you can openly share ttatt with your wife...is it helping?
Nope, those pat answers were her answers as well. Nevermind the fact that they KNOWINGLY went into their relationship with the UN knowing that they were the wild beast. Somehow, they went in thinking something was right and left when they discovered it was wrong. Unreachable...
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The Circuit Overseer Visit
by garyneal inlast week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wifes congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week.
from my perspective, the meetings are held on tuesday and thursday instead of the normal wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service.
sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting.
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garyneal
Last week, the circuit overseer came to visit my wife’s congregation and as usual their patterns change somewhat during this week. From my perspective, the meetings are held on Tuesday and Thursday instead of the normal Wednesday night during this week and they are more eager to go out in field service. Sunday came and my wife wanted us to attend the meeting. Normally, I do not bother attending meetings because I do not support their beliefs and practices. While I think they are sincere people who only try to worship God in the only way they know how their prohibitions on all holidays and birthdays and their murderous blood doctrine prevents me from ever considering joining this religion even if I could overlook all their other faults. In truth, it is their murderous blood doctrine alone that prevents me from considering joining this religion even if I were willing to give up the holidays and birthdays. I would never in good conscious allow a person to die due to a dietary restriction found in the Old Testament.
That said, since this was a ‘special occasion’ and since it was important to her that we all attend as a family I went with her to the meeting that day and did I get a gem from the CO. The circuit overseer gave a talk about the last days and what events in the world tie in with Bible prophecy. I thought, “Oh great, the usual apocalyptic clap trap that I used to hear at my old Independent Fundamental Baptist church.” One thing I notice about tying current events with Bible prophecy is that somehow the events that tie to specific prophetic claims in the Bible tend to change as time moves on and Jesus has not yet returned. In fact, I pointed out this to my wife when I told her later that while I am first to say ‘Jesus take the wheel’ in regards to His coming religions do a disservice by constantly instilling fear by always insisting that His coming in imminent. The signs of the end have been around for centuries going all the way back to Jesus’ time and Christians should take heed to Christ’s warnings regarding how it is not for us to know the date or the time of the end. I got enough of that crap from the IFBs and have since decided that I will just live my life as best as I can with as much honesty and integrity as I am able and if I am to be damned, let me be damned for who I really am.
But the gem I got from the circuit overseer that day came when he discussed the harlot and the wild beast found in the book of Revelations. The harlot was of course the churches of Christendom, “no surprise there,” I thought as it never fails that it would not be a JW meeting without at least one mention of those awful churches of Christendom. I was expecting that the wild beast would be either the world’s governments or the European Union as this is what I used to hear in my IFB churches. Close, it was the United Nations. The circuit overseer gave a brief history lesson of them and tied them into the wild beast. I wrote in my notepad and showed to my wife that, “The Watchtower Society used to be an NGO member of the United Nations.” I later confirmed this by doing a Google search and finding both a Wikipedia article on the subject and a page on jwfacts.com. Plus, the statement from the UN that I found on their website clenched it. From 1992 to 2001, the Watchtower Society was indeed an NGO member of the UN even though they had for years railed against them calling them the wild beast in Revelations. Learning what I learned about their association with the UN, I am surprised that the CO would make such a comment in his talk. Evidently, he never got the memo.
So are people like my wife hypocrites for adhering to a religion that preaches against the churches of Christendom saying not to associate with them while at the same time joining the YMCA and attending college at a Christian university? Would it be hypocritical for a witness to attend an office holiday or go with their spouse to a holiday function when they are told not to have any part of these events? How about the witness who attends a church wedding or funeral for their non-witness relative? Well, far be it for me to tell an individual to violate his or her own conscious but I find it very hypocritical on the part of the Watchtower to tell their witnesses these things when they themselves went against their conscious and signed on to become an NGO member of the wild beast for 9 years only to disassociate when they were caught doing so.
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E-Watchman? Thoughts?
by thedepressedsoul ini stumbled upon the website e-watchman today and while i didn't have time to read over everything i found this thoughts so far quite interesting.
recently when reading matthew i can't help but feel that jesus warnings about the pharisees also applied to the gb and elders.
actually everytime jesus brought them up i realized how similar they are.
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garyneal
I was never a JW but when I began questioning my faith and researching I came across his postings. At first, they seemed sincere but ultimately I found that he writes like the Watchtower. His postings here as 'You Know' damaged his credibility as did his YouTube debates with others like 21CrossCheck21 and Tim Kilgore (who posted here as Tuesday). For me, the coup de grace came when one of his podcasts was commented on by Brett Palmer on YouTube.
This one is my favorite:
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
I do not know his specialty but the he works at NASA Langley, by the Air Force base. Yeah, I often wonder myself how these JWs are able to hold to the view that education is harmful and yet have an education at the same time. Another elder at her congregation graduated in pharmaceutical studies. Of course he did this BEFORE he became a witness, how convenient. Even my wife is pursuing her Master's in Teaching from (of all places) Liberty University. The Christian school founded by Jerry Falwell. How do they do it?
Incidentally, this is an excellent seque to my next topic for this board.
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A brother at my wife's congregation wants to study the Bible Teach book...
by garyneal in... he apparently has wanted to do so for a while now.
i agreed to meet with him this tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. edt.
he asked me to pick the chapter where i wanted to start.. hmmmmm... where shall i start?
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garyneal
No next chapter with Hero. He cannot answer my question so he stopped coming by.
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
Does your wife remember than in the 1st century the apostles were not seen as great scholars or full of knowledge of the world. Unlettered and ordinary... Jesus talked to the common people but the religious leaders listened too but did not get the sense of it.
Yeah, it is funny how Brother Smart Engineer's intelligence is honored because he agrees with the WT but as for me, well I am one of those intellectuals with whom the word of God was hidden from.
Are you in the Houston area?
Nope, Hampton Roads.
In short, I think if you look deep enough into the engineer, you'll find that he had issues before joining the cult. He probably still does have these issues.
Yeah, either that or his whole social system is in it and he is afraid to look too deep into his beliefs. A lot of smart people are like that.
A discussion of actual JW history would be nice to read about. Does Brother Engineer know that the nu-light on the "Superior Authorities" was originally correct and then changed by Rutherfraud, but the changed back to the correct understanding?? Does Brother Engineer know that the WTBTS has NOT consistently taught 1914 as the beginning of last days??
HA HA, I doubt it but you never know. I just know that Brother Hero (a pioneer brother who failed to explain the blood doctrine contradictions) didn't.
Einstein was obviously brilliant in at least one way, but if he had become a JW, would he have automatically been more qualified than other men in his cong to teach the Bible and JW doctrine?
Albert Einstein — 'Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.'
I know a NASA jw dude too-- he was once a MS.Anyways, he quit that position, they're rich and travel everywhere, do everything, and get drunk with other jw friends. It's WHATEVER. He and his family are social jws. I'd rather make friends with genuine ppl.
This describes this dude too as far as I can tell. I don't know about his drinking but I know he is rich and travels. I guess someone like him would be my wife's wet dream.
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
Ask your wife if she believes talking to a Muslim engineer would convince you to convert to Islam. We find highly educated people in all religions, but sadly very few among JW...so few that they make a big deal when one comverts and supports their simplistic beliefs.
I thought of this myself. How many smart mormons are there? If one of them spoke with her, would she change her beliefs? No? Then...
Obviously professional training or a degree doesn't automatically infer that a person has knowledge in all areas.
When I was in the university, a philosophy professor (who also teaches religious studies) spoke about a man who appeared on the 700 club who said he knew the location of Heaven. This got him curious so he watched and as the individual tried to say that Heaven was behind the black holes in space. He gave no explanation regarding how he came to that conclusion except for some vague and vacuous statements that your typical believer makes and when it came out that he was an electrical engineer the professor turned it off saying, "What does an Electrical Engineer know about things like this?"
As an Electrical Engineer myself I was a bit offended by the professor's comments but I understand what he means now. Really, what do I know about the Bible and religion? VERY LITTLE and even less so at the time. The more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know far exceeds what I do know.
rjharris: Um, keep up the preaching work.
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You should meet Brother Smart Engineer
by garyneal inmy wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.
apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.
at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.
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garyneal
Okay, excellent comments from everyone. I'll try to sum up the comments here as there is so much to respond to but I must start with a little bit about myself as it seems I keep forgetting that some people leave and new ones come on to this board.
I don't consider myself a Bible scholar by any stretch, I am nowhere near what Laia or Narkesos are in terms of their biblical and historical understanding but I have been learning as much as I can whereever I can. That said, there was a time when I was really religious. In fact, if you look at my original postings on here you will see that I was very religious. I was an engineering student in a university back in the 1990s and I was very involved in religion back then. Like most 'smart' believers, I could easily make evidence fit my conclusions regarding God and His place in the universe. However, I found that a) a lot of my justifications for my beliefs had little basis in the Bible, b) I REALLY did not know the Bible, and c) for a long time I would not allow myself to be challenged in my thinking. Once I began really looking for evidence the scales began to fall.
My wife says that I am 'such a smart man to not understand things' which drives home the point that was made in this thread in that Jehovah's Witnesses tend to think of all outsiders as mislead or deluded and therefore not worth listening to. If I had done that, I would've been a much 'stronger Christian' and a seriously deluded individual. I am thankful for my doubts and my uncertainty now but it was a hard path to take as so much of my beliefs were at stake. I can understand and appreciate why others, like my wife, would not want to follow that path.
To answer a hair splitting question that was posed, engineers are not scientist in very strict sense. It is easy to see why an engineer can see the complexity of things in the world. I even remember making the point to my physics instructor that the second law of thermodynamics contradicts the evolution theory. Of course, I forgot that little thing known as the SUN that without it, life on Earth would not exist.
Now, regarding Bro Smart Engineer, I really don't know my wife's motives but she tells me quite frequently that he sounds a lot like me when he discusses Bible things. So I am guessing that she thinks he could maybe convince me or at least make me think on some things that she cannot answer. However, I think she is trying to set us both up and I do not want him to feel obligated to speak with me in anyway. Besides, if he was really that interested, I think he would've already done so. Some other things I know that may affect his thinking is that the elders at her hall know I associate with apostates (by posting here). Also, a pioneer brother attempted to have a Bible study with me sometime ago, not to mention the six years I spent studying with them from 2003 to 2009. So I can imagine that if this guy is an elder and is aware of all of this, he very likely wishes to keep his distance.
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Father denies children inheritance unless they quit Jehovah's Witnesses
by Tiktaalik inan article in the sydney morning herald:.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/father-denies-children-inheritance-unless-they-quit-jehovahs-witnesses-and-become-catholics-20140810-102egl.html#ixzz39yziuuvf.
"from beyond the grave, father-of-four patrick carroll continued a five-decade crusade to steer his children away from being active jehovah's witnesses and into catholicism.. mr carroll wrote into his will that his adult children were not to receive any inheritance unless they met two conditions: attend his funeral and become catholics within three months of his death.. mr carroll died in april 2012. his children attended the funeral but they did not become catholics and challenged the condition in the nsw supreme court in a bid to still receive their share of his estate.. but justice francois kunc last week ruled that mr carroll was entitled to place such conditions on his will.. the court heard that mr carroll's motivation was not so much about imposing his own beliefs but rather the fact he never approved of his children becoming jehovah's witness.. the court heard that mr carroll did not raise his children as catholics, neither he or they had attended church services when they were young and he did not enroll them in catholic schools.. but when he split from their mother lillian in 1959 she became a jehovah's witness and over the next decade the couple's four children, robyn, paulene, anthony and susan, were baptised as jehovah's witnesses.. mr carroll never approved of "their adherence to that faith", the court heard.. "[lillian's] conversion to that faith enraged mr carroll, who for the rest of his life continued to express his very strong objections to lillian's and the children's member of that faith," justice kunc said in his judgement.. the court was told that all four of his children remain active members of their congregation.. in his will, written in december 2011, four months before he died, mr carroll left more than a third of his estate to his four children "dependent upon them becoming baptised into the catholic church within a period of three months from the date of my death and such gifts are also subject to and dependent my children attending my funeral.".
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garyneal
Well as others said, this feeds the persecution complex and makes them rockstars at the conventions.