Posts by garyneal

12

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not seek truth and prefer to follow their hearts...

by garyneal in

it’s been a while since i posted some thoughts of mine concerning the jehovah’s witnesses and the watchtower babble and trash society.

okay, i will be respectable and say it right, the watchtower bible and tract society.

i do, however, think about the doctrines quite a bit as well as the overall doctrines from christianity in general.

garyneal

Well, I must admit, this has been somewhat enlightening to say the least. Perhaps, maybe I am viewing the witnesses in my life the wrong way when I conclude that they are following their own heart.

I just simply drew the analogy concerning why a witness, when shown the evidence that contradicts a major teaching of their faith, will either double down and support the lie or try to dismiss it by saying, "We do not serve for dates," as if to suggest that 1914 is not a major teaching.

smiddy

I certainly agree that witnesses simply follow the GB and are not allowed to question even when they do a reversal on a major teaching (say the generation teaching). I can only imagine how demoralizing that could be to have a teaching you defended just get changed to something nonsensical. I had a conversation with a JW elder who I nicknamed scholar when I shared our exchange over this very topic. He seemed eager to embrace this new teaching in spite of him not being able to explain it.

I remember also when he tried to explain the erroneous 607 BCE date to me after my wife and I went to the library and found not a single encyclopedia supporting this teaching that he told me that he had the same experience not finding it in any encyclopedia. He simply researched it using WT literature and was convinced that the society had it correct. This, in spite of, evidence (those darn encyclopedias) to the contrary.

I cannot help but to see parallels between what he, my wife, and other witnesses she knows are doing and what they accuse Christians of doing. My wife told me of a talk she heard from a visiting speaker who said that he encountered a householder who, when confronted with a biblical passage that contradicted her beliefs, went to her pastor to clarify only to be told by this pastor that they must "read between the lines."

There's a who LOT of reading between the lines to get 1914 out of the Bible. Given scholar's embracing of the WT theology concerning the erroneous date and my wife's dismissal of it with the whole "We do not serve for dates" rebuttal, I cannot help but to think that they are simply clinging for dear life to an ideology because it suits them.

Of course, as others have pointed out, there are other reasons why people stick around even if they no longer believe a lot of the nonsense.

67

Recent mistakes of the Governing Body contributing to the decline of JWs

by slimboyfat in

they have made so many strategical mistakes it's hard to keep track.

some changes within the last decade or so that are contributing to declining numbers of jws:.

1. elimination of book study groups, the most informal, enjoyable and sociable of the jw meetings, contributed to loss of sense of community among jws.. 2. policy of consolidating kingdom halls.

garyneal

Are the Jehovah's Witnesses actually in decline? I remember a few years ago that their worldwide numbers tallied up to 7 million publishers. Now they claim to have 8 million publishers. Of course, according to Aron Ra, the Mormon religion counts even individuals who are no longer active in the Mormon church to boost their numbers. Perhaps the WT is doing the same?

To look at my wife and her family, there is no indication that they're losing confidence within the religion.

12

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not seek truth and prefer to follow their hearts...

by garyneal in

it’s been a while since i posted some thoughts of mine concerning the jehovah’s witnesses and the watchtower babble and trash society.

okay, i will be respectable and say it right, the watchtower bible and tract society.

i do, however, think about the doctrines quite a bit as well as the overall doctrines from christianity in general.

garyneal

It’s been a while since I posted some thoughts of mine concerning the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Babble and Trash Society. Okay, I will be respectable and say it right, The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I do, however, think about the doctrines quite a bit as well as the overall doctrines from Christianity in general. I remember during the six years I used to study with the Jehovah’s Witnesses how they like to quote the passage in the Bible that states that the heart is treacherous.

“The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?” – Jeremiah 17:9

I don’t recall whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses used this verse to get me to question my beliefs and consider whether or not any of them were wrong. I do, however, recall my wife using it on me a few times when I sometimes would say that when I was not sure about something I would simply follow my heart. As I did begin to consider their arguments I could not help but notice that they were not as receptive to any arguments outside of their own beliefs. This became even more apparent when I began discovering facts about the misdeeds of the WT leaders of the past and some of their erroneous teachings, a few of which persist to this day.

After all, it is easy to see why someone would choose his or her own beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence if such a belief system feels good to him or her. In this person’s heart, the beliefs must be right and confirmation bias being what it is it was only a matter of time before this person found something to justify this belief. I remember feeling the constant need to reexamine my own beliefs often as I did not want to be guilty of just “following my heart” instead of following the facts. Indeed, if my beliefs were wrong and the Watchtower (or some other religion) had it right, I needed to know this and adjust my position accordingly. However, I noticed that in spite of the witnesses’ own claims to be lovers of truth, they resist even the most glaring evidence that contradicts their own belief system.

I’ve spilt ink over this subject before but I still think it is a very good analogy to show the double standards and doubling down witnesses do to avoid the conclusion they might have to face should they consider the facts. Witnesses love to point out to Christians that December 25th is not Jesus’ birthday and make a lot of hay regarding why Christians will either double down on the position that it is indeed His birthday or simply acknowledge it but see nothing wrong with celebrating His birth on that particular day anyway. I’ve personally had a witness tell me that this information is available in any encyclopedia and therefore I should accept this because of this fact.

Fair enough but mention this about 1914 and the year that marks the beginning of the 2520 year seven times period, which the Watchtower erroneously places at 607 BCE, and the response is surprising to say the least. Similar to how Christians respond to the whole Jesus not being born on Christmas Day fact, witnesses will either double down on the erroneous date by attempting to discredit the evidence that supports 586/587 BCE or they will simply try to dismiss the whole argument by saying something like, “We do not serve for dates.”

That last response should be particularly troubling because these same witnesses will insist that Christians who see nothing wrong with celebrating the birth of Christ on Christmas Day, in spite of knowing that it is not His birthday, are simply being dishonest and just trying to justify their own traditions in spite of knowing the truth about them. In other words, they’re simply following their hearts. Yet these same witnesses do not seem at all troubled about attempting to ignore the evidence concerning 607 BCE by attempting to dismiss the whole argument by saying, “We do not serve for dates.” It is a glaring admission that these witnesses are not interested in truth and prefer to keep with their own traditions. In other words, they’re simply following their hearts.

81

No! No! No! This can't be true? brexit? No!

by purrpurr in

it seems britain has voted to leave the eu in a move of total madness!

the markets are already in free fall and the moronic bigots who campaigned for this are celebrating the demise of our country .. i can't see how a 49-51% split can be democratic?

there is still the postal vote to come in, maybe there's hope in that?

garyneal

Yeah, I really don't think it is going to be as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Sure, there'll be adjustments and any "bad" things that come out of it will be used by brexit opponents as fodder for staying but I really do not think it is all doom and gloom.

Let's leave the doom and gloom at the kingdom halls please.

14

Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?

by Doug Mason in

on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.

but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!

it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.

garyneal

https://youtu.be/ZyFM0_AhIYA?t=6m35s

56

One reason behind the slow steady decline of JWs

by AllTimeJeff in

hello first of all to those that remember me.

i'm doing well, 10 years since my missionary trip to cameroon.

i've met a couple of goals.

garyneal

^ Yes, I second the previous posts.

Good to see you again ATJ. I don't usually get on here much anymore and have largely moved on so it was nice to see your post again.

7

not going to school

by Sabin in

i don't know if it is the same where you are but where i live it is a common practise of jdub`s to withdraw their kid`s from school at about year 8 even younger in some cases.

they say they are being home schooled & of cause they do cover a certain amount of school topics.

don't get me wrong i`m not saying that it is wrong to home school a youngster, especially if they are being bullied or suffering in some way, but the jdub`s don't do it for this purpose, oh no their kid`s are out on the field service during what would be school hours.

garyneal

I do not know too many witnesses who home school. Of course, I do not know too many witnesses outside my wife's family, a couple of cousins of my mom, some former Wal-mart coworkers, a friend, and some members of my wife's congregation. I just never hear her talk about homeschooling except in a negative way.

I do, however, know of some fundamentalist Christians who home school as well as an anti-vaxxer mom who I used to attend church (and is actually a somewhat liberal Christian) with recently who also home schools.

I find it odd that for so many witnesses who home school that the Watchtower does not provide some teaching materials for these home schoolers. I know fundamentalist Christians sure have their strictly Bible based educational sources.

72

Arctic Ice Increasing

by Perry in

arctic has gained hundreds of miles of ice the last three years.

red shows the september 2012 minimum extent.

green shows the current extent, which is likely the minimum for 2015. the arctic has gained hundreds of miles of ice over the past three years, much of which is thick, multi-year ice.. article.

garyneal

According to the bible, after the thousand years, the earth will have four corners again,

Just thousands? Doesn't that suggest that the Earth should have its corners now?

72

Arctic Ice Increasing

by Perry in

arctic has gained hundreds of miles of ice the last three years.

red shows the september 2012 minimum extent.

green shows the current extent, which is likely the minimum for 2015. the arctic has gained hundreds of miles of ice over the past three years, much of which is thick, multi-year ice.. article.

garyneal

Perry, you did not answer my question on another thread you started. Are you still an Independent Fundamental Baptist?

175

Implications of gay marriage ruling

by Rattigan350 in

while many think that the ruling is good for the gays and their response is: how does that affect your marriage; then on the other side the religious people cry god and sinners.

but both are missing the forest through the trees.. the problem with the ruling is that which is discussed here so many times.

five unelected federal officials decided on policy for the whole country, running roughshod over every democratic principle.

garyneal

For that reason, marriage became a secular contract between two people and the government.

It is that last part that makes me bristle. It is like two people are in essence, marrying each other and the government. I know couples don't see it this way but that wording does suggest it.

People can still "get married" without the government. The rise of cohabiting couples who have children and pretty much carry on in every way as if they are married minus the marriage license is proof of that. Two people can commit to each other in "marriage" without any religious or secular ceremonies. Two people can decide to have a ceremony in either a religious or a secular context.

The rest is just property and legal obligations that the partners agree to privately and that can easily be handled under a separate legally binding contract similar to a business partnership. In case of a later contract dispute, that can be handled in civil court just as other contract disputes are handled now. For those who think that drawing up contracts detract from romantic view of marriage, a simple template that simply says something like upon dissolving of the contract (ie divorce) joint assets are split 50-50 and both parents are awarded automatic joint custody of the kids unless one partner is a significant threat to the kids.

In short, I just don't see how a marriage should be a contract between both partners and the state.